Author Topic: An Erie Canal Conversation -- (Read 144 times)

Michael Caswell · « **on:** February 06, 2023, 06:23:46 am »

--between a local resident and a Canal Corp employee.

Resident = When do you expect the seeps will actually be fixed such that the canal can have the water back to normal level with no concern for the safety of the embankment and the folks who live below the level of the canal embankments?

NYS Canal Corporation = Thank you for your inquiry into the status of seeps along the Erie Canal’s earthen embankments from Fairport to Pittsford and as it relates to water levels.

As you may be aware, the New York State Canal Corporation recently implemented the Earthen Embankment Integrity Program. This new program creates a plan for restoring and managing critical earthen embankment infrastructure along the State’s canals while maintaining the safety and integrity of water impounding structures, and preserving community character. The Program and its associated Guide Book also includes opportunities for community input, based on thresholds, when projects are identified and completed.

During the 2022 navigation season (May – October), in a few areas, the Canal’s water levels were reduced due to concerns about embankment integrity. By lowering the water level approximately 12-inches from Macedon to Lockport, the number of active seeps on the embankments were reduced from over 200 to fewer than 50 seeps.

We understand that reduced depths present safety concerns for boaters, limit the amount of water available for agriculture and fishery and complicate inspections for officials.

The Canal Corporation plans to keep levels reduced again this season; however, we recognize this action is not a long-term solution to mitigating seepage, which is why it is imperative that work under the new Program is completed.

We appreciate your inquiry and concerns, and we want to assure you that our top priority is the safety of communities surrounding the canal system. Please refer to https://www.nyscanalintegrity.org/ for more information and updates.

Doug K · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2023, 07:11:35 am »

Great post Michael, as it shows just how serious the canal seepage & integrity issues are along the waterway.

First, this statement...

By lowering the water level approximately 12-inches from Macedon to Lockport, the number of active seeps on the embankments were reduced from over 200 to fewer than 50 seeps

So the overwhelming majority of issues with the Erie's Embankments are located in the top 12" of water level. That's the narrowest cross-section of the earthen dam, and also the area that is most at risk from burrowing animals like muskrat & mink.

And if a breach happens in this area the NYS Canal Corporation has already stated, and described in great detail, that the earth dam section will wash away if water starts to flow through any breach there.

It will start as a trickle, and in no time will create a gap, 150' wide and 12' deep. The flood that will follow would devastate the surrounding area, with long lasting contamination, and even longer cleanup needed.

And the second take away... is this statement.

The Canal Corporation plans to keep levels reduced again this season; however, we recognize this action is not a long-term solution to mitigating seepage, which is why it is imperative that work under the new Program is completed.

READ IT AGAIN: we recognize this action is not a long-term solution to mitigating seepage, which is why it is imperative that work under the new Program is completed.

Go read for yourself just how bad a flood would be, it's described several times in this Embankment Program SEQR filing.

https://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/FGEIS/NYSCC_EEIP_Final_GEIS_BlackText.pdf

Anyone who cares about the Erie Canal, anyone who wants to see it here for another 100 years, and Canal Neighbors living below the waterline should be supporting its much needed repairs.

Obviously the Canal System is one accidental flood away from closure, and in need of immediate repair.

Why else would NYS take such drastic measures and create an entire Embankment Integrity Program?

This is what happens when those in charge of the Canal System can't perform their routine maintenance as expected, they have to start reducing water depths to stop leaks. Maybe one day it will have to be empty, to keep NY safe.

And this is what happens when a local social media group rises up to oppose making the Erie Canal safe for public use, when social media pressure stops required canal maintenance and when misinformed people state that trees & shade are more important than a safe, sustainable Canal system

The message to the Canal Corporation should be entitled:

Fix the Erie Canal BEFORE it kills someone please!

Doug K · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2023, 07:48:09 am »

It's now "official", due to continued issues with seepage & unsafe Erie Canal embankments, water levels will be reduced again in 2023

Notice to Mariners

Western Erie Canal and Glens Falls Feeder Canal – Water Levels

February 8, 2023

The New York State Canal Corporation today announced that water levels this navigation season in the Erie Canal between Lock E-30 (Macedon) and Locks E-34/35 (Lockport) will be consistent with levels maintained throughout 2022 – approximately one foot lower than historic levels.

This is the second year that levels have been reduced as the Canal Corporation continues to monitor more than 200 known seeps along the canal’s earthen embankments. Levels may vary slightly depending on the location. The reduced water levels should not impact vessels transiting the canal within the navigation channel but may impact some docks and boat launches.

In addition, water levels in the Glens Falls Feeder Canal will be consistent with levels maintained throughout 2022 – approximately two feet lower than historic levels as seeps continue to be monitored there as well.

Additional adjustments to the water levels, if required, will be communicated in a timely manner.

The Canal Corporation continuously monitors and inspects these earthen dams on foot via daily monitoring with our staff, as well as using advanced technologies like drones and thermal imaging. To learn more about the Canal Corporation’s Earthen Embankment Integrity Program, please visit this website.

https://www.nyscanalintegrity.org/

The Canal Corporation urges all users and stakeholders to register to receive updates through the Notice to Mariners notification program by clicking here.

https://www.canals.ny.gov/wwwapps/tas/notices/index.aspx

For general news, please visit www.canals.ny.gov or follow the Canal Corporation on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or LinkedIn.

In case of emergencies, please call the Canal Corporation’s Emergency Call Center at 833-538-1042.

06:58:23AM 2/8/23

NYS Canal Corporation Notice to Mariners - Notice #1 for 2023 Navigation Season

https://www.canals.ny.gov/wwwapps/tas/notices/ntm.aspx?id=2030

Doug K · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2023, 08:46:58 am »

Just for those who are wondering why the 2023 Erie Canal Navigation Season will ONCE AGAIN have "reduced water levels" for almost 1/4 of the Main Erie channel... It's because of SEEPS located just below the waterline, about a foot or two below it. So by reducing the normal water level, the NYS Canal Corporation can keep those leaks "dry", and above the reduced waterline.

They have now stated on their website that approximately 75% of their 200+ known seeps and leaks DO fall into this category, about 150 leaks/seeps.

https://www.canals.ny.gov/wwwapps/tas/notices/ntm.aspx?id=2030

It is ALSO because a local social media protest group (Facebook) has been WRONG all along about the current state of the Erie Canal and Safety of NY. We searched the ECNA Archives and found these statements from one of their leaders, Ms. Elizabeth Agte, who complained last year about the lowered water, stating that it was "just more fear-mongering" by the NY State Canal Corporation.

She stated last year, when this SAME THING HAPPENED, that reducing water is just a "ploy" to scare people to accept that trees need to be removed from Erie Canal Embankments.

Read these two posts below about reduced water levels in 2022

https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/they-blame-the-nypa-but-its-their-fault!/

https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/finally-she's-got-the-message!/

On May 27, 2022 this is what Ms. Agte wrote:

"CC/NYPA posted a Notice to Mariners on their Facebook page and their website on May 17th advising that the water levels will be a foot lower between the lock in Macedon and the locks in Lockport, as they report to monitoring 200 known seeps. But the reality is that seeps do not occur along the top of the embankment, and that of course earthen embankments have always seeped.

It can be argued that this is further fear mongering or an abundance of caution."

But if it is truly a risk or concern, then it would seen prudent that they share these seep locations with local communities.

If you read those two posts you would have seen that the NYS Canal Corporation DID post extensive maps showing where the leaks & seeps are located throughout the NYS Canal System.

https://www.nyscanalintegrity.org/program-and-maps

So Ms. Agte notes that some people are accepting the statements from the Canal Corporation about lower water levels "without question", and then makes some confusing statement about the leaks being "above the waterline" so what gives? Seriously? Ms. Agte really believes the the Canal Corporation spotted seepage from areas of the embankment that NEVER see any water? Just how is that possible?

Nope, this is just more PROOF that if Ms. Agte (and her social media group) says something about the Erie Canal, related to embankments or embankment safety, it's probably a good bet they are WRONG! It's just the group's CONTINUED denial of the danger that unmaintained & degrading Erie Canal Embankment are posing from NY State, and Erie Canal Neighbors.

And there is nothing new about that... completely missing the point once again.

Sadly Ms. Agte also wants to IGNORE the issues in her own backyard, where much of the Perinton & Fairport communities are under THREAT from two leaks along the canal there. One is on a 3/4 mile long embankment dam that holds back Oxbow Lake. The other is something called "the GREAT EMBANKMENT"... and maybe should have the word DAM added to it in the future, once it get's cleared.

Of course Ms. Agte's house sits way up on a hill, away from the potential danger, and under NO threat from these canal leaks that could flood her neighbors & friends. But that hasn't seemed to matter to her or her group in the past, so she has no reason to change her denial... does she?

Doug K · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2023, 08:32:52 am »

And very predictable here... a local social media group wants to make this reduced Erie Canal waterway level PERMANENT somehow thinking that will "save the trees" along the unsafe earthen embankments.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/i-had-to-chuckle!/?message=2372

Not sure how anyone could believe that permanently reduced canal levels would ever work, especially with 100 years of "local infrastructure" in every canal village that would be affected.

Of course if THAT person was ONLY interested in the walking trail & "shade", and cared less for what other Canal Systems users might have to endure, it would all make sense.

Case in point - one Ms. Virginia Borden-Maier, Co-Founder of Facebook Group - Stop the Canal Clear-cut

Doug K · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2023, 09:31:40 am »

More Local & State news coverage of the lowered water levels in the NYS Erie Canal for the 2023 Navigation Season. A quick read shows that reducing water levels in the Canal System can only result in the future need to continue this "bandaid fix" with more than 260 known seeps only growing worse. Eventually the Erie Canal will turn into nothing more than a series of "disconnected puddles" with this lower water solution.

https://www.newyorkalmanack.com/2023/02/seeps-keep-erie-canal-glens-falls-feeder-canal-levels-lower/

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/local-news/erie-canal-water-levels-maintaining-one-foot-lower-status-this-navigation-season/

And while many boaters & dock owners, who use the NYS Canal System waterway, are very concerned about this temporary measure, some Canal Trail Users protesting Erie Canal Embankment Maintenance are looking at lower water levels as a PERMANENT SOLUTION for an aging Erie Canal system.

And almost ALL of those folks are in one Fairport Facebook Group, still intent on ignoring public safety as well as the safety of canal neighbors.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/i-had-to-chuckle!/?message=2372

Just an FYI: Many of the animals causing seep issues along the canal, instinctively make their burrow at water level, from the inside of the canal.. it's just a fact, published by FEMA, in their Dam Safety Manuals

And that issue with waterline level seeps has been verified by the NYS Canal Corporation:

Shane Mahar, Spokesperson for NYS Canal Corporation says, “Last navigation season in 2022 we made a decision to reduce the water level by about a foot in that greater Rochester region of the Erie canal to reduce the pressure off of the embankments and by doing that temporary reduction we realized that the seeps that we were monitoring that were wet went from north of 260 to less than 50…”

This will be the second year in a row that water levels are reduced as the Canal Corporation continues to monitor those active seeps in the embankments to prevent any possible breaches.

“We’re trying to make sure that the canal stays safe, and it stays operable and that it is here for all of Monroe County all of NY to enjoy for the next generation as we look to begin the 3rd century of the canal’s operation in 2025,” says Mahar.

According to the Canal Corporation it’s a "short-term solution" as they continue to monitor any known seeps over the next several years. These efforts are being done as part of ongoing ‘Earthen Embankment Integrity Program,’ to keep the Erie Canal safe and ready by the time canal navigation starts up for the season on May 19, 2023

https://www.nyscanalintegrity.org/

News:

Author Topic: An Erie Canal Conversation -- (Read 144 times)

Michael Caswell

An Erie Canal Conversation --

Doug K

Re: An Erie Canal Conversation --

Doug K

Re: An Erie Canal Conversation -- Reduced Water Level for 2023

Doug K

Re: An Erie Canal Conversation -- Reduced Canal Water Levels & STCC Denial of the Problem

Doug K

Re: An Erie Canal Conversation -- Permanently Reduced Erie Canal Waterway

Doug K

Re: An Erie Canal Conversation -- Reduced Water Levels in the Erie Canal