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Topic Summary

Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: August 14, 2021, 07:14:10 am »

I almost forgot - Bill wants to discuss 'safety' ?

Surely, there is nothing more to say? The NYPA have covered all this in their EEIP program. The only problem now is to  remove the illegal, unwanted vegetation from the dangerous earthen embankment dams, and carry out the long overdue repairs and regrading of the slopes.

Unless of course, Bill wants to discuss the lack of safety due to his STCC group hindering the NYPAs progress?

Posted by: Doug K
« on: August 14, 2021, 07:02:14 am »

It will not matter how many times the truth is shared with this Facebook group or it's members, or they are told the facts about Earth Dams:

They will make up their own set of facts, to support their "dream", and then state they have experts to support is, one is a beekeeper the other, a biology teacher.

They will continue to deny the safety issues that a 200 year old man-made waterway, and state it's perfectly fine the way it is, even though there have been 4 emergency repairs in 3 years, and a section of embankment holding up an aqueduct broke in Macedon this Spring.

They will continue to recruit more members that can't think for themselves and want to jump on the bandwagon of "misplaced" environmental concern. It's sad that so many in our area can't think for themselves and depend on Facebook for their "new truth"

They will continue to ridicule the New York Power Authority as the "boogie man", because it all started when they took ownership of this mess. No matter that ALL prior ownership let the Canal degrade to it's current condition, in need of repair, and threatening many state residents.

And they will continue to deny any and all science, facts, and experts like Dave Mellen, who don't have the "popular message" this group wants to believe in.

You know Mike, this would almost be funny, if this Facebook group wasn't dead set on leaving Erie Canal Neighbors in danger living below these UNSAFE EMBANKMENTS. And those TWO words - Unsafe Embankments, well they will not be changed, and they will not go away on their own...

That's is why this Earthen Embankment Integrity Program is going to move forward, without any more SEQR Article 78 interruptions.

Much to the dismay of a beekeeper and a biology teacher who told 700 "sheep following them" that it wouldn't.
Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: August 14, 2021, 06:34:20 am »

I guess we have to go back to square one and define levees, dams and wooded slopes?

How many times do we have to do this for it to sink in?

To summarise this  --

Professor Donald H Gray (yes the expert witness who wrote testimony on behalf of the STCC for the court hearing) The man who, as you can see here, clearly states now -

I donít know of any earth dams where woody vegetation was purposely planted or allowed to grow on a face of the dam.  Such is not the case with earthen levees where vegetation can often be found growing on both the landward and water sides.

Does that put this to rest now?  Or do I need to find the other witness who recanted his original statement on this topic, Dr. David Rosgen?
Posted by: Doug K
« on: August 13, 2021, 03:02:59 pm »

Well Bill is probably trying to appease the FB Group Admin & Moderator.

The EEIP Guidebook, the Best Practices Handbook, and the rest of the EEIP information uses the word Natural & Vegetation many times, but only once together. Well not quite identical but close.

The word "Vegetation" is used with the following other words or phrases quite often:

Woody - and refers to trees and anything with 1" or larger diameter and it is not allowed on Earth Embankment Dams. This will be removed as part of the EEIP safety program.

Invasive - which is the current condition causing the need to clear, and this type is not allowed (but is natural occuring). EEIP will remove this as well, brush, grasses, shrubbery, berry bramble...all gone.

Turf - which is also called grass, it's the preferred vegetation covering for earthen embankments and is also natural, but not normally a native species. It is allowed to be planted on dams and levees that are cleared as part of State Vegetation Management Programs.

"Free Zone" - as in Vegetation-Free Zone. It's well described and states that with few exceptions, turf grass is the ONLY allowed, natural vegetation allowed in these defined earthen dam zones. This is what the purpose of the EEIP effort is, to restore the earthen dam "vegetation-free" zones.

Here's where  the two words Natural + Vegetation do occur together, sort of: LEVEE REPAIR OR IMPROVEMENT 
The California guidance dictates that vegetation shall be removed as required to meet objectives of the specific project. Any vegetation removed may not be replaced in the vegetation management zone.

However, vegetation on other sections of the levee, not affected by the construction activity may remain in place, natural revegetation may be allowed outside of the vegetation management zone, and replanting may be allowed (see Section; for levees regulated by USACE, their approval is required for planting.

Engineers and levee maintaining agencies should also consider preserving trees and other woody vegetation within the vegetation management zone that provide important or critical habitat in consultation with the appropriate resource agencies by including the following root mitigation alternatives as part of any levee improvement program: 

ē The overall width of the levee is overbuilt landward by at least 15 feet beyond the standard minimum levee dimensions, or 

Note a few items here... It for California, and it's for levees. This is NY and these canal embankments are not levees. The EEIP documents state clearly that the NYSDEC & NYSCC will use Earthen DAM guidelines for Canal Earthen Embankments, to insure the highest level public safety is maintained.

AND...this section still says The California guidance dictates that vegetation shall be removed as required to meet objectives of the specific project. Any vegetation removed may not be replaced in the vegetation management zone.

And the EEIP program in NY State has defined the work/project/program, and they have also defined their Vegetation Management Zone. Their plan on record is similar to what would happen in California  or anywhere  Dam Safety work is done... they will clear woody & invasive vegetation, and plant natural turf grass vegetation in its place.

Sorry if that's not to the liking of those using the Empire Trail, but it's never been about any of you, which seems to be part of the problem here.

Just an FYI:

It's been about the hundreds of canal neighbors living below these unsafe dams, with earthen dam vegetation-free zones filled with so much woody & invasive vegetation these structures can't be properly inspected per NYS Guidelines.

It's about keeping people safe... but sadly that part escapes people like Bill, Virginia, Elizabeth, and Harvey.

Yea Harvey, we blame YOU for all of this mis-information and deception going on in Perinton.
Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: August 13, 2021, 12:04:40 pm »

Bill Maier, Virginia Maier's hubby, is spouting off again on the STCC Facebook page.

Bill! For goodness sake, this topic has been beaten to death! What else is there to discuss?

And who ever stated 'natural vegetation maybe the most stabilizing embankment cover'?

No one who is qualified has EVER said that. This must be something you've all dreamed up. Show me!  PLEASE!