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Posted by: Doug K
« on: October 02, 2019, 09:50:30 am »

Good old phrase applies well here... "Consider the Source" This all comes from a group that believes they have won... but can't face the truth.

Trees are down already from Western End of the Canal Systems with about 25% of the total main canal length already complete

The war they say they's against Public Safety and the safety of those Erie Canal neighbor's living below the waterline.

The Canal Corporation wisely changed from a safety project to a safety PROGRAM in their next phase of Dam Repair. The EEIP work is non-stoppable and greatly expanded in safety coverage SCOPE all thanks to this group.

Meaning that even MORE tree lined areas may be included, affected and removed, which is exactly the opposite of their goal.

They have won nothing, not even the Booby Prize.

Posted by: Doug K
« on: September 27, 2019, 09:04:24 am »

Once again, more fiction from a group & it's leaders who can't seem to "handle the truth"...quoting a famous movie line.

Here's the Screen Barrier Experts.... by function:

Engineering & Design -
Material supply & plan execution team -
Bergman is on-call Design & Engineering support.

All of what is being done now on the EEIP is based in Known Science & Engineering Best Practices. Why would she think that would change? What she's doing is actually firming up the position of the Canal Corp when she says these things. She is verifying that the NYCC is doing everything right.

And in the same breath, she is insuring that most intelligent people can see how wrong she is, and how unwilling she is to accept the facts & the truth.

I posted some replies to other posts...but it won't do any good for Ms Agte. She can't tell fact from fiction, can't see the truth now that the STCC filled the pot with a simmering soup of lies.

She's unwilling to admit she is wrong... even when that fact is staring her in the face.

Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: September 26, 2019, 04:41:58 pm »

Ms Agitate is upset, as you can see from this post on Facebook.

She says there are none of the following being consulted.


No need for biologists, grass is a simple thing to deal with. No need of 'environmentalists' (especially self professed ones). Don't need ecologists or scientists to cut down down brush and cottonwoods. Everything has been gone over a long time ago by real experts.

They just don't give up, do they?
Posted by: Doug K
« on: March 27, 2019, 02:54:40 pm »

Somewhere on this Forum I posted information on NY Canal Corporation budgets, years 2016-2019. If you look long enough this information can be found on NY State websites. It's usually in pages and pages of Meeting Minutes, something most folks gloss over except Engineers & Researchers. It's always about data & numbers.

2016 (pre-NYPA) - Normal CC operating budget was about $55M, only $5M was from canal income, the rest was from the state, from who ran the canal corporation through the Thruway & DOT.

2017 (NYPA transition) - Starting at that $55M number they only did some internal changes but did pay Rizzo Engineering for the Erie Canal Safety Inspection...which led to the Embankment Program...not much change. They did get almost $3M approved at year end for the Vegetation Project.

2018 (EERP start) Total for the year was original $55M needed annually and they were also given another $40M for The many projects that were started for improved safety abd decreased risk to the state. Projects like Erie Canal Embankments and Deruyter Dam repair are a few that come to mind. NYPA asked the NYCC what was needed and they replied, extra budget money was approved in Fall 2018

2019 (EEIP start) I read somewhere the total budget for Canal Operations & Maintenance  (O&M) was less for this year than 2018. Still it is  $33M than in the past with the Thruway. The NYCC O&M number is around $88M this year, and they are also taking on more safety repairs and general the SEQR work on Embankment Program. The are also now expanding the Erie Canal trail where needed to finish connecting the 500+ miles together.

After years of "limping along" and falling apart the Erie Canal is getting a much needed "facelift" by the re-energized Canal Corporation, energized by its new owners NYPA... and we also think we found the source of the funding for these Erie Canal Capital Improvements

NYPA has simple said when it comes to Dams it has to be about safety, not true..

My answer to Concerned Neighbor is simple...

Just take a look and see what's happening west of Rochester, you will see a Safety Project in action. That same thing will happen in every single neighborhood that borders Erie Canal Embankment Dams. It's now a program by the NY Power & Canal Corporation that focuses on two things..Safety & Sustainability.

And it's not anyone's choice but our own...we ALL asked for Dam Safety years ago in this country... 2006 to be exact.

The National Dam Safety Program Act was voted into law back in 2006, by people who we elected into office to do this sort of thing...protecting the public, even if they don't think they need it. Rest assured that the "new" New York Canal Corporation has heard the message loud & clear.

They are in the "Make the Erie Canal Safe Again" business for the long haul... and have all the funding needed to accomplish their task, already provided by yet another State Act... Transportation Act of 2005 = Canal Infrastructure Improvements = $210M
Posted by: Worried Neighbor
« on: March 27, 2019, 10:10:44 am »

What's the cost of safety for those of us living below these dams in Perinton & Fairport?

Has this local group trying to stop the canal work, already placed a price on loss of lives if a flood does happen? That seems like a real possibility if none of the dams in Perinton get done. Why would anyone fight against a project to protect public safety? It's hard to understand why anyone wants to keep dams unsafe if that's the condition the Canal Corporation has said they are in. Am I missing something?

This Ms Maier of this STCC crew is acting like she takes the money out of her own pocket for this dam work. Seems like the Erie canal embankment work will stretch across the whole state, why does the opinion of this group even matter at all?

I'm a guest, been watching both ECNA & STCC for awhile. You can tell easily who is lying about canal safety, the group who seems to be placing a price tag on it.

I don't think it's a good idea for anyone in Pittsford or Perinton to support a group that can't understand that public safety is always most important to public workers in NY, it's about protecting the people who live here.

Don't we all depend on the canal corporation to insure the Erie canal works as it should, including making sure it's safe and meets state & federal requirements? If they say it's not safe and needs repair who are any of us to second guess their expertise?

What's happened to people in our towns that they have become this selfish?
Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: March 27, 2019, 09:06:20 am »

More from the pen of Ms Maier
On the question of 'How much is all this dirt costing?"

Virginia Borden Maier writes  Since the Canal Corporation won't just voluntarily tell the public this, we're just going to start saying that we estimate $30 million.

That's amazing!  I wonder how she came up with this number? Pulled it out of a hat perhaps?  I'll bet within a week, this number will be carved in stone on the STCC Facebook page.

They simply ignore the cost of the alternative, which is a breach of an unsafe dam. If it saves ONE person's life, it will be worth it. If it saves ONE dam repair, it will be worth it.  But of course, Ms Maier isn't concerned about all that, she lives way above any potential flood.
AND LEST THE STCC FORGETS  Remember the court injunction they filed against the NYPA   Almost $50,000 in legal fees for the three towns, Perinton, Pittsford and Brighton. I hate to think what it cost the NYPA in delays to their contracts, and their legal fees sorting out that mess. Perhaps the STCC should have a whip round from it's members (605 at last count)  that's only about $100 per member. Come on guys  - cough up! Its the neighborly thing to do!
Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: March 27, 2019, 08:50:08 am »

And true to form Ms Maier says
Virginia Borden Maier "It's like you can just see the taxpayer dollars being dumped out by the truck full."

Oblivious to the fact that all the engineers and scientists are telling her that a safe embankment needs a slope ratio of 3:1, she's still bitchin' and moanin' about something.
The alternative is what? Let the embankments stay the way they are? Then what happens when a breach occurs? At least we'll be able to point the finger and Ms Maier and her little crowd.  Until the banks are repaired correctly, to engineered standards, we'll be able to say the delays have all been caused by the STCC. I hope that never happens, but they will need broad shoulders to carry that load.

Posted by: Doug K
« on: March 26, 2019, 12:29:53 pm »

Just as I thought... the 1951 Classic War of the Worlds is playing in our area.

And look... a new movie title... with STCC changes.

And this is the Canal Corporation according to STCC followers?

NO WORDS can explain the ranting of crazy people, they hear a different drum...Maybe it is one that's as **** as they are though.

Posted by: Doug K
« on: March 25, 2019, 09:30:08 am »

Seems like the STCC is back at it once again, this time comparing the Erie Canal Embankment Restoration going in in western Monroe County to the 1938 radio show that aired the original War of the Worlds play. That broadcast was unique and started a panic along the East coast as the listeners of that day ALSO fell prey to the "fake" show that was playing out on their radios. It appears the STCC has stolen their playbook.

Perhaps this post was inspired by the recent showing of the classic movie War of the Worlds on public airways. In any case it is a VERY poor attempt at trying to accomplish the same general idea... both are trying to "scare" the public into believing something that is just not true.

That has been the campaign of this small group of Stop the Canal ClearCut fanatics from Day 1... no surprise it continues today.

Here's a one page reply to the post by Mr. Neale just so we can be clear of what this author is saying:

Such an ominous tone from the STCC, they are "waged in a war" it seems, at least that is what they must think. Sadly the "war" has ALWAYS been with their own inability to understand the truth and failure to recognize when the safety of the public is at risk, even after all this time

Maybe the STCC should simply "try" accepting the fact that the Erie Canal needs help to survive the "war" being waged against it by large woody vegetation growing along the embankment dams that line it. That is, after all, exactly what everyone who is an expert in Embankment Dams is saying about it.

But then again... remember what someone said a long time ago...
Posted by: Doug K
« on: March 03, 2019, 01:00:20 pm »


The issue is not that this group doesn't know the rules around Embankment Dams, they simply refuse to agree with the basic definitions stating it time and again and choosing a path completely opposite of what the NY Canal Corporation has said. They have ignored what Embankment Dam Science says, and sadly what the experts, they sought out themselves, have told them.

They simply refuse to acknowledge those crazy words like: unsafe, embankment, dams, safety, know.."danger words".

There are plenty of past STCC postings that show Ms Maier has TOLD the group what to say regarding use of the term: Dam. Fact is that she had visited other NYPA managed Embankment Dams, via Google Steets perhaps, and it was grass covered so if the STCC used the word "Dam" then this is what they would get. Looked something like this:

You see,  if you say anything at all that the STCC Leadership disagrees with you, are NOT welcome in the Facebook group or will be cut from it's membership if you were already a member. I'm not on Facebook myself, don't  know when this post went up on STCC Land, but honestly if the STCC followers want to be led around by this bias, hoping on hope their the Leadership is right, they are in for a BIG surprise.

Here's a question...
Why doesn't anyone within the STCC ranks challenge their own leadership as to why they have ZERO ANSWER to the statements made by Dave Rosgen..their OWN expert who told them that Erie Canal is created by a series of Embankment Dams. They wrote him, he replied and they have YET to post that little bit of information for their "followers" top see. Instead they just sweep the facts under the "STCC carpet" that says they will somehow stop a public safety project meant to protect the Erie Canal.

Because if they do ask.. they will be tossed out for even questioning the motives of the STCC Leadership.

The STCC hasn't stopped anything, and looks like they now have given the Canal Corp the "key" to preventing any further chance that "people behaving badly" will be able to stop their important Public Safety efforts again. It has now become a case of "be careful what you ask for" as the SEQR document demand of the STCC is being met, for the next iteration of the Erie Canal Embankment safety. All future embankment work is now under the NY Erie Canal Earthen Embankment Integrity Program... note the word program. All will have SEQR in place pre-work.

Statewide Environmental Quality Review, or SEQR as it's know, is being done on all work zones, all counties, the approximately 260 more miles of main Barge Canal waterway. That work insures that even though the NYCC is NOT required to have it it is in their "back pocket if needed, should any opposition arise in future Embankment Repair work. In addition, that same SEQR work may now be used to identify needs for Embankment Remediation beyond the normal two-step process. US Army Corps of Engineers describes Embankment Dam  Remediation as Step 1: remove large vegetation & stumps and then Step 2: grub, refill slope and plant grass.

That is all that is required in the Earthen Embankment Remediation process, clear & plant grass.

Restoration or barrier replanting may become "optional" with the new Cnal Corp EEI Program. If SEQR analysis shows the need, then the adjoining property will get that 3rd step homeowners were promised with the EERP project, privacy barriers. Doing the SEQR work will most likely result in a nice tidy savings from the EEIP efforts to put back into the NY Canal Corporation working budget. That is a savings to taxpayers as well...the STCC can pat themselves on the back for that. Of course they also made it impossible for Waterloo, Syracuse & Little Falls to mount ANY opposition as well.

What the STCC Needs to Do:
I've heard the STCC has recently asked their members to leave if they are sending information to the ECNA... who they paste the "enemy" label on. I have a better solution... and one that will quickly solve your problems of "who's the mole" & "where's the leak". And folks most of you will get this because it is COMMON SENSE, something seriously lacking in this whole mess.

Try this simple 6 Step approach... because it will work and you might accomplish your goal.

Step 1 - Remove ALL members of the STCC except Agte, Maier, Gouldthorpe & Miller... throw in K. Gallagher for good measure as he's a pretty logical guy, but he's stuck hoping these first four are right. There are a few others that do post on STCC but stick with this short list for a reason.

Step 2 - Post the Perinton Embankment Safety video to your Google STCC site... and also "may" want to mention the ECNA as a source of data, as that seems to be were many of your own folks, even leadership, seem to be getting your latest information lately.

Step 3 - Post the Wildwood Hydrology discussion w/ Dam Rosgen, on WHY Erie Canal Embankments are actually considered Earthen BOTH the STCC Facebook & Google websites... hopefully with your admission that the STCC is sorry for not providing it sooner. Here's an easy way to do that.. link this post -->

Step 4 - Agree as a five person Leadership Team to always provide VERIFIED facts whenever possible FIRST, over opinions, ideas, hunches, and intuition as Ms Agte claims over and over. Tell the truth and it will be easier to defend..right?

Step 5 - Reopen your Facebook group to the Public and wait to see if your membership returns... of course you will no doubt be using some type of "loyalty test" to try and weed out those you are "asking politely" to leave and won't. Not sure why this is needed, but you folks seem to want it.

Step 6 - Compare the old number with the new member should tell you quite a bit about your overall messaging and whether it is now accepted a year after your inception. If folks don't come back in droves, then maybe your message needs to improve, or it's other core values like honesty, integrity, and transparency. If folks flock gives you a chance to weed I guess. But at least you get answers.

This all makes sense doesn't it?

But of course I'm not sure if anyone in the STCC Leadership will understand...they still don't get what's wrong with this picture in spite of EVERYTHING they have been told to them by the NYCC, NYPA, ECNA and common sense.

Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: March 03, 2019, 10:26:13 am »

In response to Maier's letter, here is a list of the government departments who consider that tree are not allowed on dams.

Here are the STCC expert witnesses who have clearly defined the the canal embankments as dams.

Dr Donald H Gray

Dr D Rosgen

It's also worth reading this article.

Posted by: Doug K
« on: March 01, 2019, 02:26:37 pm »


That word was selected for this post because of it's dual meaning. It is a good trait at times, and also can be a bad one. For those who don't know the meaning take a look at what the dictionary says.

Something has bothered me about this STCC group from the very beginning, maybe because I could have ended up in their dilemma myself. If you did not know it (some in the STCC ranks can confirm this fact) I actually started the NY Canal Corporation project on the side opposing the Embankment Repair, and was actively distributing flyers to my neighbors for a week. They were messing with my backyard and I wanted to fight back!

Then I took the time to read and understand the information the NY Canal Corporation was discussing. I looked at those linked DEC, FEMA and US Army Corps of Engineer documents and guidelines. It took some time, a bit of reading, but soon it was apparent the issue was NOT about trees but about Embankment Dam safety... and yes, my wife and I live BELOW the waterline so it was easy to see that these were Earthen Embankment Dams being addressed.

I changed my view, put my support behind safety and insured that the local Mayor of Brockport also understood that the idea of fighting against safety was just not "common sense". She agreed as well.  You see logical people get safety, they get the idea that it's not good to be in an "unsafe state". You see Mayors, Town Officials and the sort are responsible for the public and represent that public, they HAVE to be concerned first and foremost about public safety issues.

Our Mayor spoke with other Western NY Mayors between Brockport & Medina and decided as a group not to fight the Canal Corporation on this Public Safety Project, which is exactly what this Embankment Restoration project is all about. And now, after 2 tough years the Embankment Dams are getting cleared, reshaped, grass will be growing soon and the Canal Corp has a personalized the barrier replanting process started that will help the Erie Canal Neighbors out here get back some of the privacy that they lost making the community safer.

The NY Canal Corporation doesn't need to do this as part of the Embankment Remediation process, they made a promise and they are keeping it.

Whats' Wrong with the STCC?
In my long career as a Manufacturing Engineer & Research Scientist, I've learned that most people, when confronted with evidence that their viewpoint may be flawed with incorrect information, will normally work to understand if the new information is correct or if their view & fact set is incorrect. It's an internal mechanism that lies somewhere between "cover your ass' and " I never knew that"  and most people will "auto-correct" when faced with overwhelming evidence their viewpoint may be flawed. Some call it holding a "mirror" up to yourself, some say it's an adjustment of the filters in your life. Some how we all figure out how to weed out the incorrect ideas we all have eventually

This is also what seems to be missing with the STCC Leadership and anyone who still supports the idea that there is NO safety issue on the Erie Canal... no filter. The facts are overwhelming, and now in video form 


Sadly the STCC leadership of Maier, Gouldthorpe, Agte and Miller has taken the approach of complete denial of facts that conflict with their "opinions or feelings" about the Erie Canal and then resort to calling those with the contrary facts "liars or fakes"... but not directly
to their face. The not to their face part changed in the past couple days though, showing their mounting frustration.

The Evidence is Growing:
The ECNA does not make these claims lightly. We have recently uncovered more evidence that the STCC Leadership is not acting in "good faith" with either their supporters, the local community where they live, or the Village & Town Leadership for Pittsford, Brighton, Perinton or Fairport. We will present that evidence in this  posting and let the community at large decide.

The ECNA knows what is bothering the STCC these days, it's the release of these new Erie Canal Embankment Videos. The Perinton Embankment Safety video and the Canal Corporation Embankment Project, regarding work on the Erie Canal, has them
in an uproar... and why?

Well, because it a very healthy dose of the truth about this Canal project.. the fact that it's always been about safety, a topic that the STCC claims is "non true" with zero corroborating evidence. They simply chose to ignore safety and talk about trees. This STCC group, who has watched over this Earthen Embankment Repair Project like a hawk, preening any mis-step by the NY Canal Corp with a fine tooth comb.. claims that somehow they had "missed" the two MOST important videos when they recently posted links to those videos on their Facebook website.

The ECNA says hogwash.. and we have proof.

Here's the time line as far as the ECNA can figure it out, around these new Canal Corp Embankment Videos and their release:

Jan.02, 2019 - NYCC releases Perinton Embankment Safety Video to Canal Corporation's YouTube Channel
February 22, - NYCC releases Erie Canal Embankment Project Video to CC's YouTube Channel

February 22, - ECNA (DK) links Erie Canal Embankment Video to a NEW post on their ECNA.US Forum
February 23, - STCC Leadership (Virginia Maier) creates letter to local legislators regarding Erie Canal Embankment Video
February 24, - STCC (Maier) completes her 2-page letter, presumed sent out to their desired audience
February 25, - ECNA (DK) links the Perinton Embankment Safety Video to a NEW post on their ECNA.US Forum
February 25, - ECNA (Caswell) links ECNA post on Perinton Safety to - Perinton where it's viewed by 1000s

February 25, - STCC (Maier) creates post including link to Embankment Project video on STCC Facebook & STCC Google direct Youtube link
February 26, - STCC (Maier) creates post including link to Perinton Safety video on STCC Facebook page only.
February 27, - STCC (Gouldthorpe) replies to Maiers's Perinton Embankment Safety post about possible fake video coverage
February 27, - STCC (Agte) replies to Maiers's Perinton Embankment Safety post calls it "lies & propaganda"

February 27, - ECNA posts reply to Gouldthorpe's video foul claim and questions their motives behind it.
February 28, - STCC has still refused to post a link of the Perinton Embankment video to their Google STCC Page
March 1,     - ECNA creates post refuting STCC's video propaganda claim and questions integrity of the STCC Leadership.

You have to ask yourself why didn't the STCC post the Embankment video on February 22 or 23 when Ms. Maier found it, presumably through this ECNA Forum. You see the ECNA is open to all, STCC folk included. No, instead Ms Maier saw the Embankment Project video and started crafting a letter slamming the video to local legislators immediately because the rest of the STCC really doesn't have any voice but that of the leadership it appears.

Also ask yourself why she chose to spend 4-5 hours writing this letter to her "legislators" regarding upcoming meetings when she could have taken 5 minutes to post and inform the STCC members of new information and gotten their feedback in the two days it took to craft a two page letter.

No instead the "leaders", a term used loosely here, decided to fight safety once again. I have included the Letter to Legislators at the end of this post for those who want to read it. For a group that spouts off about NYCC "propaganda" all I can say is something about Glass Houses.

Here's an example of what the STCC Leaders think about the recent Canal Corporation's Embankment Videos, one on SAFETY in Perinton and another on the general Embankment Restoration project. Here's the STCC video reviews that have been sent into the ECNA:

Not very flattering, and full of that "good ole STCC venom"... but that has become the "MO" of this very dangerous "tree-roots" group.. lol.

Sadly the claims made by the STCC are coming from a group and leadership that has consistently failed to provide one credible expert who agrees with their position that the Embankment Dams do not need to be cleared.

They have no experts who support their claim that the Erie Canal is bordered by levees & stream banks.

In fact they have no experts that agree with their unsubstantiated claim there is "nothing wrong with the Erie Canal"

Even their own work, trying to prove the NY Canal Corporation was wrong about calling the Embankment Dams, backfired when their Hydrology expert sided with the NYCC and ECNA.

What's Next?
Folks, the recent release of two videos by the NY canal Corporation regarding the Embankment Restoration project & overall Safety of the Perinton Embankment Dams has cemented the truth about this Erie Canal project for all to see. Do you think a state agency, responsible for insuring the Erie Canal remains the centerpiece of the Erie Canal National Heritage landmark status would make statements about safety if they were lies? With all the transparency in this new digital / social connected age is highly unlikely that would even be considered. No the Embankments are aging, there hasn't been a proper restoration of the earthen dams in over 80 years and the system is failing safety inspections.. that's the truth.

The STCC can't hide behind it's lies and innuendo any longer, it's time for the STCC to face the truth, it's time for the citizens in three Towns east of Rochester to be called out publicly for it's reckless and irresponsible behavior. Please STCC... before you look even more foolish then you do right now, reconsider what you are trying to represent with the existence of your Stop the Canal Clearcut group.

Here's a picture of the Word file's statistic's page that proves my statements in this post about when it was written and how long it took as well as the name of the author.. see the highlight arrows.  I've posted the Virgina Maier's letter at the end of this post... for anyone who wants to take a read.

RELENTLESS: Exactly what the ECNA has been in the pursuit & acceptance of the Truth about Embankment Dam Safety.