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Posted by: Doug K
« on: July 11, 2019, 06:40:45 pm »

The biggest issue on the Embankment Project has been when some people said safety was a hoax and tried to change the topic.

Here we are 2 years later at Square 1 again, talking about Public Safety, the NY Canal System and a new Embankment Integrity Program.

If you don't learn from your past you are destined to repeat it... looks like that is true...with one exception.

NYPA won't let anyone change the topic away from dam safety again
Posted by: Michael Caswell
« on: July 09, 2019, 03:39:00 pm »

What's all this fuss about SHADE?

I've been pondering this problem just lately, because I've noticed we get a lot of sun on our stretch of the Erie Canal. You can see the shade on the trail opposite my house almost any time through my live web camera.

It's important to note that this part of the canal is running north to south, and my camera is pointed south. So after mid-day the sun starts to descend over the trees on the embankment, gradually casting shadows over the trail.
What I've noticed is that there is hardly any shade on this embankment dam trail until about 2.30pm, and by 4pm it's pretty much shaded. The rest of the canal, running east to west, has all the trees scheduled for removal on the NORTH side, so most of the trails are in FULL SUN most of the day. There may be exceptions to this where trees on the southern banks are casting shadows over the canal to the trail, but its unlikely these will be removed, even though there are new projects afoot for all sides of the canal.

With the vegetation removed, this trail will be in full sun from 2.30pm onward. On a sunny day in mid summer, I would estimate it to be pretty hot, EXCEPT that now, there will be a breeze coming up the canal embankment, something that can't be felt at present because of the trees.

Now lets look at the sunny days we have in the Rochester area.

Place    Sunny Days    Partly Sunny Days    Total Days With Sun
Rochester     61                      104                          165

Can we assume that from October through to end of April, most folks will be glad of sunshine so won't mind if there is no shade during this time?
What we are therefore talking about are the late spring and summer months May through September. 5 months which averages out to a total of 68 days with sun in the summer.

As the only area where folks are saying 'shade is cool' that really has shade now and will lose it shortly when the Canal Corp implements the next stage of their Embankment Integrity Program is from Bushnell's Basin to Fairport, and that the shade in question is only from about 3pm onward for 68 days a year, can I suggest that folks who think it's too hot etc. should not use this section of the trail during these times, but look for one of the other many trails in our famous TRAIL TOWN.

But, let's think positive here. The Bushnell's Basin- Fairport Embankment dam will be a fantastic place to visit to see the extensive views across the Irondequoit valley on cloudy days in the summer - there will be more of them too!  In the sunny evenings, I can imagine dozens of folks coming to The Oxbow to see the sunsets. At the moment, the trees really hinder that view. Don't forget to look at my web cam for the sunsets!

Perhaps folks would like to recommend other trails in the town with shade after 3pm?

Posted by: Doug K
« on: July 09, 2019, 09:32:22 am »

Couldn't help it folks.. I feel bad for smart folks who are being guided by some that aren't so inclined.

Kerri Neale has asked a question for days now on the STCC website without answer... so we can help. Mr. Neale, if you are out there you can find all what you need to know here:

So the OLD project for Embankment Restoration is OVER, final touches on Barrier Screening Planting is the last step slated for Aug-Sept 2019
This is the REPLACEMENT...with the SEQR that your group requested. The three towns on the EAST side were moved into this PROGRAM

And the NEW program...the Earthen Embankment Integrity Program or EEIP, well it covers ALL original project areas that EERP did as well as all of the state EAST of where that last project left off...including Spencerport, Pittsford, Brighton & Perinton. The NY Canal Corporation has stated plainly that these areas have the HIGHEST concentration of unsafe Embankment Dams in the entire canal system


Well it's quite simple actually...the topic has landed back on safety...and that is a painful topic for the STCC, one they work to avoid. Here's a few suggestions from a group who's working to help Erie Canal neighbors... take em or leave em... no matter to us. just trying to help.

1) The Canal Embankments are called Dams... get used to that word and start using it. They are also Unsafe Dams if they have TREES on them. So when you say you want these unsafe dams left in our communities..please state that plainly. We like Unsafe Dams.If you try to call them anything else the conversation will be over with the folks trying to FIX those unsafe dam conditions.

2) If you want to say SHADE is more important than Safety of Unsafe Dams...go right ahead with that one... it won't even be heard by the NYCC. Same goes if you say TREES are more important that people's lives living below those Unsafe Dams... but go ahead, it won't be heard. That goes for Oxygen loss, critters, and Amur Honeysuckle...per your neighbor.. Mike Caswell.

Defending an idea to keep unsafe dams will be an uphill battle, no pun intended.

3) Any argument for the "environment" has to start where SEQR starts, with Possible Loss of Human Life if a breach occurs. Losing a bit of oxygen from a few trees taken off dams pales in comparison to the NYPA argument that loss of human life from a flood would be far worse...and they have supportive data.

4) Your experts to support your position should be better than what you used for the last Embankment Restoration Project. These are not levees, and your hydrology expert from Colorado sided with the Canal Corporation. Finding somepone who will say trees BELONG on earthen embankment dams will be near impossible...but have at it if you think you will be more successful in Round 2

5) Try to remember that others in Rochester may have more at stake than you and your leaders. Many along the canal are talking about safety & floods while you STCC Trail Users are discussing scenic wonders... seems a bit callous doesn't it? Try to remember that just because you refuse to believe there is a SAFETY issue that doesn't make the issues around safety go away.

None of this is said in malice Mr. Neale... it's just facts. If the STCC wants to continue its fight against a Public Safety PROGRAM, one that will be supported by the very SEQR review it requested, they better be prepared better than last time.

For the rest of you out there reading this POST,  the ECNA will be closing it's Stop the Canal ClearCut Forum Board very shortly... They are "old news" and not worth our time anymore, we have bigger issues to solve in the Erie Canal Neighborhood