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91
This article points out quite a few things that should be concerning to neighbors.

What really got my attention was the statement 'STRUCTURES IMPOUNDING WATERS'.  So many of those opposing the Canal Authority's work to make safe the Erie Canal, have railed against calling sections dams, have tried to call them 'Levees', and have even come up with thinking they were a 'special case deserving of a special name' as long as they weren't called DAMS. You see, if they were called 'dams' then they would fall under tons of legislation which required ALL vegetation to be removed from the slopes. Of course, that would have stopped them in their tracks.

According to this article, it doesn't seem to matter what you call them, because they IMPOUND WATERS. That should therefore be an end to it!
92
Perinton Embankment Dam Discussion / Re: But Not on a dam!
« Last post by Doug K on October 22, 2019, 11:49:32 am »
Mike, I am hoping this will help, but the better part of me says you can't expect anyone in the STCC group to act sensibly.. not in their "nature".

Here's an interesting take on What a Tree Is... from Joyce Kilmer with some edits by a one of the country's leading authorities on Trees, Dams and Safety



So who wrote the Introduction  for Chapter One?  None other than the Federal Emergency Management Agency.. a group that knows a thing or two about all things related to Dam Safety in America... FEMA... the peopler who also bring you the National Flood Insurance Program.

Here's where this nicely started Introduction comes from... https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/20130726-1446-20490-2338/fema-534.pdf



If you haven't read this manual the ECNA suggests you do. Especially if you want to INTELLIGENTLY discuss Erie Canal Embankment Dam Safety and the role TREES play on that topic. Of course you can ship educating yourself about the issues of Trees on Dams, and simply look foolish fighting against a public safety program being run by the NY Canal Corporation to fix our own unsafe, tree covered Erie Canal Embankment Dams... your choice.

There are so many websites dedicated to this topic of Trees on Dams being bad, that it's hard to believe a group like the Stop the Canal Clear-cut could avoid seeing them... so it's assumed they simply don't believe there is any danger to the public, regardless of what the owners/caretakers of the Erie Canal are saying.

Here's a good read about Dams, Trees & Safety... this one from the NY Dept of Conservation - https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/67062.html



In fact just about every state in the USA has something about proper care of Dams for their state, none of them say Trees should ever stay on a dam. Here's a few more that you can review that discuss Earthen Dam Safety issues in all sizes & shapes.

https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/db/documents/db-8.pdf

https://wildlifedepartment.com/landowner/ponddams.pdf

https://damsafety.org/dam-owners/trees-and-brush

Folks, none of that matters in the end, does it?

If people want to simply DENY THE TRUTH about Dam Safety, they will do just that... hell or high water.. again it's in their "nature".

I am sure these same people questioned the recent Takata Air Bag Recall, stating that they felt the airbags haven't blown up yet so there is no danger...right? Or maybe they all protested years ago when Regional DOT fixed the traffic horror known as the "Can of Worms". Many accidents & some fatalities prompted a revamp of the entire 490/590 interchange... were these people saying Pooh to that as well? Maybe they thought it wasn't a design flaw... did they fight a DOT Public Safety Project? I don't remember protesters out in force there. I even bet these people are writing to their State & Federal representatives saying they don't believe that Boeing Max 737 have any technical issues and should be put back into service now to avoid holiday travel issues... after all "they" didn't die in a crash with one of these jets.

So what is it then that has groups of people actively fighting against THIS particular NYS Canal Safety Issue and it's timely resolution?

Well it has to be the word "tree" has everyone riled up enough to PUBLICLY fight against a NYS Public Safety Program...is that it?

Well here's a very nice article, written by a self-proclaimed "tree-hugger" who wanted to share his understanding about the subject of Trees & Dams. I have included a link to this view, and the start of Mr. Otto's take on having trees near water, and if that water is being held back by an earthen dam. Maybe, just maybe some will read and understand the simple truth... that has eluded them for so long now... or maybe not.

https://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/dams-trees.html



From the Erie Canal Neighbor's Association perspective there are only a few question to answer right now...

1) Why would ANYONE question or challenge a program that was dedicated to restoring the SAFETY of the Public along the Erie Canal?

2) Why are people asking the NY Canal Corporation to "defend" their plans & actions of working in the public's best interest for safety?

3) Why have three towns in eastern Monroe County, in the State of New York become the hotbed for a group dedicated to fighting against public safety work along the Erie Canal?

The answer to those questions lies in solving #3 I think. It must be some kind of Eastside Entitlement perhaps that drives people to ignorance. Not just any ignorance though... it's become "selective" ignorance.

It's ignorance to three words Unsafe Embankment Dams.. those words were spoken by someone who owns 100 miles of them & has to fix them... in the name of Public Safety.

Even for a public who still fails to recognize the danger...


93
Perinton Embankment Dam Discussion / But Not on a dam!
« Last post by Michael Caswell on October 19, 2019, 04:00:06 pm »


BUT NOT ON AN EARTHEN EMBANKMENT DAM JAMIE!



94
Opposition to the Stop The Canal Clearcut Movement / Re: Moan Moan Moan!
« Last post by Doug K on October 16, 2019, 05:32:40 pm »
This project was not about erosion control,  where did Erosion Control come from? Isn't this the guy who moved away from NY State and now lives in Ohio. Why doesn't he worry about his own state's unsafe Ohio & Erie Canal Embankment Dams?

It's a good thing that the Earthen Embankment Integrity Program was about FIXING unsafe dams...that is what was done . Just an FYI...the NY Canal Corporation used the best erosion control known for safer dam vegetative covering... it's called grass.

Once again, expecting those in the STCC movement who "banked" on having tree-covered embankment dams will never be happy with the NEW grass covering these dams. It's going to be one of these reasons in the end that gets in their way:

1) Maybe the GRASS is too short compared to what was there, too much change from hundred foot tall danger trees?

2) Perhaps the grass covered DAM is too much of a reminder of the STCC Leadership's total ignorance towards public safety?

3) Maybe is the simple fact that the embankments were "clear-cut" for the safety & sustainability of the Erie Canal not "quick cash" like these folks originally said...how foolish that was.

Who knows?

But the real question is fast becoming this...
Does anyone really care anymore, about what the Stop the Canal Clear-cut Group thinks regarding the Erie Canal and it's unsafe Dams?

And the best answer to that question, for all NY State communities situated along the Erie Canal is this...
Certainly not those people working hard to make the NYS Canal Embankments safe once again...for another 100 years..

Get your earplugs, start the chainsaws, it's time to make more Canal Embankments safe in 2019. The NYS Canal System closed today, for the Navigation Season which means it's now OPEN for more, much needed, maintenance and dam remediation work.

Time to see what EEIP can do for You!
95
Opposition to the Stop The Canal Clearcut Movement / Re: Moan Moan Moan!
« Last post by Michael Caswell on October 16, 2019, 04:47:52 pm »
Phew!  What can you do with these folks?

96
Opposition to the Stop The Canal Clearcut Movement / Re: Moan Moan Moan!
« Last post by Doug K on October 16, 2019, 09:43:23 am »
So let me see if I understand this one...

 This CT Oakes dog walker, who is part of a GRASS-roots movement, that was dedicated to ignoring the "safety" part of a NY State Public Safety Project, the Stop the Canal Clear-CUT Group on Facebook, is NOW criticizing the NY Canal Corporation's methods of CUTTING the GRASS that replaced those unsafe TREES that were CUT down along the Erie Canal?

He's being critical of the condition left after the Autumn dam mowing, one of the required bi-annual clearing steps for safer embankments... do I have that right?

Mike, is your issue that this person is standing on public property, complaining that those who are entrusted to maintain this piece of land, aren't undertaking that responsibility correctly?

Or is is the fact that they are actually standing on a freshly rehabilitated earthen dam, viewing what most Dam Safety experts say is the only allowed vegetative coverage for this type of water-impounding structure, and is talking about what he thinks is wrong with the annual Autumn embankment mowing process?

Can I ask what else you would have expected?

It's just the continued "sore loser" attitude from a person who thought public safety along the Erie Canal could be ignored by a group that thought it smart to follow a Leadership with the attitude that "shade is more important than safety", and "unsafe dams were a hoax & lie"

It's what happens when the REALITY of fixing unsafe Erie Canal Earthen Dams collides head-on with the FANTASY that folks like CT Oakes have been trying to spread for the past two years.

Reality Check...

CT Oakes is standing on top of a 20+ foot high Earthen Dam that was just rehabilitated for the first time in over 80 years, and still wants to find something negative about what has happened.

Let him whine & moan all he wants. He has just as much right to his opinion as the rest. Sadly it also shows that CT Oakes has no thought to the hundreds of Brockport residents living below this 1500' long embankment... and no thought to those living along the dam, who can NOW say their property borders a SAFE Dam.

We've always thought the group fighting against this work was a little "off" on their reasoning. Never would have thought we all now have to watch them act even worse being sore losers. What's that saying about whiners & winners?

Maybe people should start to realize that safer dams along the Erie Canal is a Public Safety Goal...and we are all WINNERS as a result.

So stop WHINING so much about it please... yes I mean you people who support the Stop the Canal Clear-Cut group, who can't seem to accept they used poor judgement in being so "dismissive" of public safety.

Those of us living along these Embankments and in Dam Hazard Zones might just have a little to say about your "careless behavior".
97
Opposition to the Stop The Canal Clearcut Movement / Moan Moan Moan!
« Last post by Michael Caswell on October 15, 2019, 05:13:25 pm »


It seems the Canal Authority can't do ANYTHING to please the STCC! They moaned at the idea of mowers with drivers on them, then the CC come up with a riderless mower, and it's still wrong.
 
Hey! Mr Oakes, the spikes are aerating the lawns!
98
Wow, 48 hours & 90 views of this post and not ONE COMMENT?

Is there no one in Perinton or Fairport that has a single thought or comment to the impact of this change on the landscape of the canal?

Is there no one in Brighton, Pittsford, Perinton or Fairport that is willing to say what most of us are thinking?

Ok, I guess someone from Brockport will have to say what most of you in these Towns & Villages seem to not want to say...

Elizabeth Agte, and her Stop the Canal Clear-cut Facebook Group have stopped nothing!

If anything, this group's continued ignorance of the Public Safety nightmare the Erie Canal has become, has backfired in their faces. As a result of her quest to keep trees ON the canal there is now 40 times more canal side property that will now be "reevaluated" for safety issues. What was once only 5 embankments that would be repaired in Brighton to Perinton, could now become 10X the amount of locations that get cleared for "safety's sake". In the old days this type of blunder would merit a "booby prize".

Now it has people shaking their heads, wishing the STCC and it's leaders would just go away quietly... they've done enough damage already.
99
THIS IS THE ORIGINAL UNEDITED VERSION OF AN EARLIER POST

https://ecna.createaforum.com/perinton-canal-embankment-discussion/transition-to-embankment-integrity-program-was-costly-for-brighton-pittsford-per/

Recently someone asked the ECNA how much the new Earthen Embankment Integrity Program (EEIP) could change the landscape along the Erie Canal over the original Embankment Restoration Project (ERP). Of course the question was stated much differently... it was more like this

"How much has the STCC's OPPOSITION in Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton (BP&P) to the Erie Canal Safety Program cost it's residents?"

The answer is astounding...all gathered from the paperwork submitted so far by the Canal Corporation on it's State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) analysis. You see the issue is that the REMOVAL of BP&P from the original Project allowed the Canal Corporation to also RECONSIDER the original scope of the Embankment safety work and rethink how far it's safety program should extend.

They changed it quite a bit. Here's the original EERP Planned Work with the map of the areas affected and a table with total acreage affected



If you look at the numbers here's how these three villages broke down in the EERP plan

Brighton - 3.5 miles of Erie Canal passes through the Town and the original work would have affected 15 acres total
Pittsford - 4.5 miles of Canal pass through the Town & Village, the original work area was 13.5 acres
Perinton - 8.25 canal miles in the Town of Perinton & Village of Fairport total, by far the most of any Town, and 16 acres were affected

Here is what the new Embankment Integrity Program has for "proposed & potential" development land areas.. Maps and figures are from the released information on the Canal Corp Dam Integrity Website - http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/index.html



And here's a summary comparison of Affected Acreage by Town/Village between the Original & the Current Canal Embankment Repair Plans



That's right... there is an additional 1413 acres of ADJACENT canal land that has now fallen into the new Canal Public Safety Program known as EEIP in the Towns of Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton (including Villages of Pittsford & Fairport)

And who can residents thank for this extra attention to safety?

There is a group that is responsible for this increase in potentially cleared embankments, they can be thanked for insuring public safety is first & foremost in Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton. Who is that group you ask? It's Facebook's Stop the Canal Clear-Cut (STCC) led by Fairport's own... Ms. Agte, Ms. Maier & Ms. Gouldthorpe & Ms. Meuwissen

Next time you see these concerned citizens be sure to thank them for talking your Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton Town Leaders into bringing the NYS Canal Embankment Safety Project to Court and having the original work stopped in 2018. This canal safety work could have been done by now for you all, but it's apparent that it's only just begun. Residents may want to rethink their votes in the upcoming Town & Village elections. While they are doing that the same residents may also want to rethink who they choose to speak for them with the NYS Canal Corporation.

The STCC Leaders certainly should not be speaking on behalf of the residents in Towns & Villages of eastern Monroe County. What's happened so far, using the STCC rhetoric of ignoring safety to keep "shade" appears to have had unforeseen consequences and unintended results.

After all, shade falling on someone may not kill them, but the dangerous tree creating that shade falling on them just might do the trick.

The folks... the numbers don't lie. There are 1000 more football fields worth of potential canal embankment repairs on the slate for eastern Monroe County. Surely the Stop the Canal Clear-cut group wasn't trying to ADD more trees to be cut down, but they sure did a great job accomplishing that very feat.

Bravo!
100
Recently someone asked the ECNA how much the new Earthen Embankment Integrity Program (EEIP) could change the landscape along the Erie Canal over the original Embankment Restoration Project (ERP) that was slated for east of Rochester.

Of course the question was stated much differently... it was more like this:

"How much has the OPPOSITION of Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton (BP&P) to the Canal Safety Program cost it's residents?"

The answer is astounding...all gathered from the paperwork submitted so far by the Canal Corporation on it's State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) analysis. You see the issue is that the REMOVAL of BP&P from the original Project allowed the Canal Corporation to also RECONSIDER the original scope of the Embankment safety work and rethink how far it's safety program should extend.

They changed it quite a bit. Here's the original EERP Planned Work with the map of the areas affected and a table with total acreage affected



If you look at the numbers here's how these three villages broke down in the EERP plan

Brighton - 3.5 miles of Erie Canal passes through the Town and the original work would have affected 15 acres total
Pittsford - 4.5 miles of Canal pass through the Town & Village, the original work area was 13.5 acres
Perinton - 8.25 canal miles in the Town of Perinton & Fairport Village total, by far the most of any, and 16 acres were planned for work.

Here is what the new Embankment Integrity Program has for "proposed & potential" development land areas.. Maps and figures are from the released information on the Canal Corp Dam Integrity Website - http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/index.html



And here's a summary comparison of Affected Acreage by Town/Village between the Original & the Current Canal Embankment Repair Plans



That's right... there is an additional 1413 acres of ADJACENT canal land that has now fallen into the Public Safety Program known as EEIP in the Towns of Brighton, Pittsford & Perinton (including Villages of Pittsford & Fairport)

So put this into perspective... the Canal Embankment Dam clearing potential went from about 34 football fields to 1100 football fields
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