Author Topic: She's right - and she's wrong!  (Read 149 times)

Michael Caswell

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She's right - and she's wrong!
« on: July 15, 2021, 11:07:53 am »
From a recent post on STCC Facebook page, from Virginia Maier, STCC Co-founder

Even if Iím wrong and engineered earthen dams are different from the tree-covered natural slopes that biologists study, it is clear from both the current structure of the embankments and the engineering documents of the time they were built that they are and were not made of compacted earth. In the section on the purpose of the maintenance manual, the EIS authors state that the canal embankments were not built to modern engineering standards. The fact that these Ė essentially piles of dirt -- have maintained their integrity for many decades is an indication that TREES ON THE EMBANKMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN A PROBLEM. In fact, one could argue that roots are part of what makes these structures stable. Rather than preserve and study these unique structures, the NYPA seeks to destroy a unique, historic, functional structure to (sort of) recreate an engineered structure that never existed.


Well, you ARE wrong, earthen dams are different to natural wooded slopes, and here is why-

DAMS HAVE HYDROSTATIC PRESSURE! NATURAL WOODED SLOPES DON'T!

It's about where the WATER is, or isn't, not the "trees".

THAT detail makes a huge difference!

Because it's the pressure that 15' of head water makes, ( the depth of the canal) which relates to about 27psi of pressure at the bottom of the canal. Most garden hoses are at about 40 psi. So imagine a garden hose running at a pile of dirt. It would not take too long to erode the pile away.

One thing this author is right about is that the dams were not made the way the codes are written today.

They had little experience or records of dam construction and failures back then, and because of that, early dam builders weren't aware of 'angle of slope' or compacting earth to make it less liable to absorb moisture.  And these Canal Builders certainly did not know about THE PHREATIC LINE, and the importance of toe drains etc.

 This is why the NYPA must do this work, to correct these engineering errors.

Despite FEMA, USACE, NYDEC,ASDSO and Professor D. Gray, all telling the Facebook group that trees are not allowed on dams, they persist in saying trees have never been a problem, it's naive to say the least.

In the approximate 100 years of the canal embankment life, the first 60 or so, weren't so much of a problem, because the trees weren't very big. Sheer neglect and ignorance by the Thruway Authority, allowed the trees to reach the heights of today, where 'blow-downs' are frequent.
https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/06/29/huge-tree-blowdown-in-fairport/

I can imagine the residents of Pompeii saying the same about Mount Vesuvius, as they merrily built more and more properties adjacent to the mountain. "It's never been a problem before!"

Yea right!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 02:06:11 pm by Doug K »

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Doug K

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Mike showed a few select points from Ms. Maier's Comments, that were read into the "record" at the EEIP Zoom Call. You can see what a dismal showing it was, two hours planned and "gone in 50 minutes". I listened intently to EACH of the Speakers, especially those who we know are affiliated with that Fairport Facebook Group.

I heard the "same old, same old" from all but one of the STCC group, but was surprised by something...seemed to miss if there was an "official" statement made from the Stop the Canal Clear-cut group. Like... "We.. the 600+ members of the Facebook Group known as..." I was pleasantly surprised when the proud members started to post today and place those statements for all to see.

It's rather interesting to see, and finally I have hit upon EXACTLY what is wrong with this group... they all have the same "malady". I will get back to that at the end of the post... so read what these good people have to say... from a slightly different point of view.


Here is Ms. Ginny Maier's Work... posted by none other than Elizabeth Agte.




And here is Kevin Gallagher's fine piece...





And here is Bill Maier's statement, again submitted by Elizabeth Agte.. hmmm. Bill never mentioned his group kinship.




So, a Group Founder, and her better half, and one of the more "technical" members and NOT ONE of them thought to start with... "We, the 600+ members of the Facebook Group Opposing the EEIP say this..."

Well surely their Group Admin, Founder, and "Fearless Leader" Elizabeth Agte, said her words represented the Stop the Canal Clear-Cut GROUP.... isn't she the voice for "her warriors"?


Elizabeth Agte's Zoom Meeting Statement



It appears the majority of the members of this Facebook Group has been left without a voice, while most of it's leaders, seem to be speaking as individuals.

Not sure why?

But certainly this simple example of the "lack of group leadership, should highlight just how disfunctional and disjointed this group is. Not to mention disorganized,  discriminatory, and disappointing to its members. And also disingenuous to the local Town & Village residents, as well as providing a disservice to all Canal Neighbors.

Sadly it all started with dilussional leaders with a disputable message, and disturbing tactics to spread it.


The Cure for the Stop the Canal Clear-cut Group

I promised I had "found the answer" to what's ailing these folks, and this group, and probably everyone who hears about unsafe canal embankments for the first time.

It's simple, and I discussed it a few years back.

These FOUR people, and probably most of the newer members on Facebook posting now, all have the same condition.


It's called DENIAL... D-E-N-I-A-L.

And it also happens to be the FIRST step in the Change Process, a subject near and dear to my heart.

You have heard people say " I know so much about that subject, I could teach it". Well I do, and I have taught the Cycle of Change as part of my career in Continuous Improvement, all over the world...look me up. So there is a CURE for this malady of Denial, and it starts by understanding the cycle of change which is in the picture below, along with descriptions of each phase.



https://www.diagnosticimaging.com/view/four-phases-change

Now the BEST PART... there is a cure for DENIAL!

Well a possible cure, and it only takes 12 minutes to see if it works. Think about it, 12 minutes of your life that may change it forever.

When Continuous Change was being implemented, the video below was handed out in book form. Each reader had to take it home and read it twice. Then the next day the VIDEO BELOW was shown, and if needed, translated during the showing. The the task was simple, give you book to someone at work that would benefit most from learning "who" he or she was, one of four characters in the book.

Maybe you want to answer that question too?


https://youtu.be/OvYCLxqkfvY


Sometimes there is nothing you can do about Life's Changes, accept to learn how to accept them.

The Canal System is going to change, to make it safer, and more sustainable, get used to it, accept it, learn to live in "harmony" with it.

And please...stop whining about it.


« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 09:53:22 am by Doug K »

Michael Caswell

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Here it is folks, from none other than Bill Maier,  (Virginia Maier's husband- co-conspirator of the STCC lies)

And just in case you didn't understand Bill's affiliation with the STCC, here is the link to the post by none other than Elizabeth Agte.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/374651252977621


My name is Bill Maier and I am a resident of Fairport NY.

My comments tonight concern liability. I believe one of Canal Corporationís motivations for the proposed tree cutting on Erie Canal embankments relates directly to liability issues. The Canal Corporation wants to avoid being held liable for losses in the event of a canal embankment breach.

 I want to make clear that the Corporation is relying on a weak defense. The Corporation believes if it takes the actions contained in its proposed management plan, the Corporation cannot be held responsible should a breach occur, because it can simply claim it followed the Army Corpsí guidance relating to earthen dam embankments.

This defense will not spare the Corporation from being held liable for losses in the event of an embankment breach should one occur during or following the removal of embankment vegetation. Hereís why:

 The Canal Corporation understands today that canal embankments are not the same as dam embankments. Its stance that they are similar is a weak interpretation. Think about it. The force of water being a dam wall is proportional to the depth of the reservoir, which is proportional to the height of the dam itself. The force of water upon a canal embankment is proportional to the canal depth, which is roughly constant along the length of the canal, regardless of the height of its various embankments. For example, most of whatís behind the Great Embankment here in Monroe County is a ravine carved out by Irondequoit Creek, not a deep reservoir of water. Canal embankments are not dams. The Corporation knows that today.

The theory that the Army Corps relies on for its guidelines relating to dams ó that is, tree root piping ó is based on very little actual scientific testing on earthen dams, much less canal embankments. That tree root piping even exists on Erie Canal embankments has never been documented. That such piping exists and is a risk on Erie Canal embankments is weak conjecture. The Canal Corporation knows this today.

The Canal Corporation knows the history of the canal as it relates to embankment breaches. It knows that historically, breaches that have caused damage have been disproportionately linked to times when people have worked on the canal. Breaches have not been caused by natural vegetation growing on the canal. What the Corporation is proposing to do, work on the canal with heavy machinery, is exactly one of the chief threats to canal embankment integrity. The Corporation is ignoring this historical data. And its engineers know that today.

 I will conclude by thanking you again for the opportunity to provide comment. I believe the Canal Corporationís proposed plan is based on poor interpretations, but interpretations that their engineers know are poor, and if an embankment fails during or after the Corporation orders the removal of vegetation, I want the public to know the Corpration should be held liable for any losses. Because the Corporation fully understands the scientific weaknesses of their plan. And it conciously chooses to ignore those weaknesses.


Firstly, Mr Maier states - "The Canal Corporation wants to avoid being held liable for losses in the event of a canal embankment breach."

So, obviously, according to him, there is potential for a breach.  This would be especially true if nothing was done to repair the 'out of code' dams. But the NYPA have another plan to ensure this would never happen.

They intend to do the following -
1. Repair the gouges in the slopes, especially at The Oxbow.
2. Resurface the slopes to provide at least a 2:1 base to height ratio.
3. Check and infill all animal burrows.
4. Install toe drains to alter the PHREATIC LINE
5. Carry out regular inspections using drones.

These factors will ensure the safety of the citizens living in the DAM HAZARD ZONE. Leaving it as is, is a recipe for disaster. Each year the trees grow a few feet taller, and more susceptible to a blow-down.

Of course, one has to wonder what qualifications Mr Maier has to make these brash statements. Sounds like he is an amateur lawyer, besides thinking he's a qualified dam engineer?

Obviously his engineering skills are limited, because he hasn't distinguished between a canal embankment, and an earthen dam canal embankment. One is subject to hydrostatic pressure, the other is not. No mention of the PHREATIC LINE either, the most important factor in causing an embankment dam slump, and a breach.

As usual, the STCC and it's members are more concerned with the welfare of a few old and tired Cottonwoods (widow makers) than they are a 1000 Fairport residents.

It's disgraceful that they keep up this banter.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 02:02:07 pm by Doug K »

Doug K

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Please read this post, which also is related to these public statements made by a small contingent of this Facebook group, fighting Canal safety.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/perinton-canal-embankment-discussion/she's-right-and-she's-wrong!/

The KEY words in Mr. Maier's rant...are in the beginning: I BELIEVE

And what if his "belief" is wrong? Or what if his "believe" is based on hearsay or unfounded facts?

You see a theme with ALL of these statement being made by the group, I believe, I think, MY comment, I want... don't they have anyone in the Dam Safety arena that can support their "thoughts, beliefs, wishes or whims"?

Can't this group list even ONE professional, who specializes in Earthen Dams, to add their valued voice to support them?

The answer is NO...because no one worth in Dam Safety would ever support their preposterous ideas.

Listen, there was a time on this EARTH, when even "smart people" believed "stupid things" were true...

Like the Earth being flat, or that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Some people thought if you travelled to far on the ocean your ship would fall off and dragons would eat you.

And still today, there are STILL "flat-earth" believers... because you can't fix stupid.

I'm not saying Bill is stupid, but his ideas on Embankment Dam Safety, might be.

In fact, I understand that Bill, holds a PhD, in something.. and I am SURE it has NOTHING to do with Dam Engineering, Hydrology, or Dam Safety Protocols. Now some might say that we at the ECNA also aren't "Dam Engineers", and they are right, we don't have degrees in Dam anything.

That's why WE, the founders of the ECNA, have never shared "our opinions" about Embankment Safety or anything to do with Dams.

Folks, we have only placed all of the relevant facts and information about the subject here, and also repeated what we READ from learned professional in the Dam Engineering & Safety fields. We have come to understand that the BEST thing for Erie Canal Neighbors is to "work WITH" your neighbor, the NY Canal Corporation, as they try to repair their property, and maybe SAVE YOUR LIFE.

Mike Caswell and I understand the term "stay in your lane" and leave Public Safety Embankment Repairs to those who are the experts, not to "public opinions on social media". Maybe a lesson that others in and around Rochester should learn?


Bill Maier mentions "liability" and says it's the "only motivation" for this work, from the owners of the property. So all of the talk in the EEIP Environmental Impact Statement about flooding, loss of life, property,  and devastating environmental  issues from breached embankments is just "fluff"?

Yes, there is a BIG RISK leaving Canal Embankments to their own demise, and YES, both NYPA and the NYS Canal Corp would be responsible, AND liable in the event of any Breach or Flood. And the whole matter would make NATIONAL NEWS if all of that destruction could have been easily avoided by simple & known embankment maintenance work being performed, as it should have been, for the past 50 years.

I'm sure Bill & Ginny Maier have a home owner's insurance policy, and there's coverage for someone who may "fall down" or get hurt on their property. They think the INSURANCE is necessary, and pay the bill annually, not wanting to incur the potential "risk & liability" for an injury or death themselves, on their own property.

Embankment Repair, Maintenance & Proper Inspection are all part of the "insurance policy" for Canal Embankments, but Mr. Maier doesn't believe that the owners of CANAL PROPERTY should be afforded the same liability coverage that he & his wife rely on...really?

Why not?


« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 02:11:06 pm by Doug K »

Michael Caswell

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What makes Bill Maier's Statement Right?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2021, 09:07:16 am »
Here are several government departments who are discussing Piping problems on Dams. It's a long list for a reason, they all understand what's at stake.

They all recommend NO TREES ON A DAM!


It appears that the group opposing this work can't find even ONE piece of evidence to support their case, not even ONE website that says they are right. Why haven't any of these members listed a reference? Think about it.




https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/67062.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiL-Zme0OfxAhVLCc0KHbIHCrUQFnoECAkQAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholarsmine.mst.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D2375%26context%3Dicchge&usg=AOvVaw16A5jQjnOiSXZUf22jai_j

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiL-Zme0OfxAhVLCc0KHbIHCrUQFnoECAYQAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fema.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F2020-08%2Ffema-534.pdf&usg=AOvVaw12hJo-o0uaABODJC0tRQF3

https://damsafety.org/dam-owners/internal-erosion-of-earth-dams

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjvxbyQ0ufxAhV9B50JHTsJAWc4ChAWegQIIRAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.des.nh.gov%2Fsites%2Fg%2Ffiles%2Fehbemt341%2Ffiles%2Fdocuments%2F2020-01%2Fdb-8.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2I1rYbh0RvLkditU7pIln3

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjvxbyQ0ufxAhV9B50JHTsJAWc4ChAWegQICxAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdnr.wi.gov%2Ftopic%2FDams%2Fdocuments%2FFSVegetation.pdf&usg=AOvVaw19K0GtK9JauBMa0C93wt3U

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjvxbyQ0ufxAhV9B50JHTsJAWc4ChAWegQIIhAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdnr.wi.gov%2Ftopic%2FDams%2Fdocuments%2FFSInternalErosion.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0TQyczOfT0Wkzg34OTOsao

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjvxbyQ0ufxAhV9B50JHTsJAWc4ChAWegQIIxAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dcr.virginia.gov%2Fdam-safety-and-floodplains%2Fdsveget&usg=AOvVaw3Y-d6uCcdNBsJJNLDmOCpy

https://www.fs.fed.us/eng/dams/olt/index.html#!10-failures

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjvxbyQ0ufxAhV9B50JHTsJAWc4ChAWegQICBAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nwfwater.com%2Fcontent%2Fdownload%2F5930%2F40763%2FOperation_and_Maintenance_Pamphlet.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0EwmggaYFnA4blt2Pa9g7i

« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 05:05:32 am by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Can't be said enough, be careful who you listen to about Embankment Dam Safety in Perinton.

Some people are STILL IN DENIAL about the Danger these overgrown earthen canal embankment are posing on the Public. 

Here someone states that just because the embankment didn't break in all the rain, they "must be OK" by default.



Of course this person ISN'T telling you about the BIG TREE that UPROOTED on the TRAIL at the OXBOW EMBANKMENT DAM!

https://ecna.createaforum.com/perinton-canal-embankment-discussion/tree-blowdown-at-the-oxbow/


Nope, she just wants to say "see it's still there...no danger".

That's like saying I didn't get in a car accident, why am I paying for insurance? Or, I didn't die yesterday, my Life Insurance is worthless. And worse yet, when this person is told that the cleared embankment are all doing FINE in Brockport area, she is a "mute" until someone finally posts that they are "slippery" for his dog, and he sees some mud in places.

No washouts, no flooding... Brockport is doing fine. Apparently MUCH better that where this posting came from with pictures of Perinton houses surrounded by sandbags and huge washouts in yards & streets.

But then again, our Earthen Dams have all been repaired, and the Canal Corporation fixed MANY drainage issues related to the Embankments.  Just ask Brockport Residents and those living west.. the ones THANKFUL that they don't live in Perinton or Fairport, with all this delusion, denial & disturbing behavior about.

Sadly, it looks like it just might take a canal embankment breach, with a 60 million gallons of water racing down a 50' tall earthen dam, causing a few hundred deaths, with several houses destroyed in Perinton, before some local "fools" are convinced they were all wrong about public safety near dams.

Somehow these fools missed that it wasn't about the "trees"... It was about the deteriorating, unmaintained earthen embankment dam that was under them.

Right?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 05:16:37 pm by Doug K »

Doug K

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True to form, the DENIAL that goes on has many sides to consider... maybe the County Manager understands what Ms. Maier does not..

It's never a good idea to protest a public safety program for canal earthen dams




Maybe Mr. Bello's silence is a BIG indicator that he actually DOES "understand" the issue, and probably has consulted someone in the Canal Corporation or NYPA, to explain the issues, define the boundaries, and review the plan on Embankments. I'm sure someone in his office could read 325 pages and understand the Embankment Work restores Canal Safety.

So what's the difference between Adam Bello, who accepts the Canal work, and this Facebook group opposing the repair of embankments?

That's easy, Mr. Bello probably didn't call the Canal Corporation "liars" and accused them of "fear-mongering" when he heard the facts, science, and best practices of authority groups like FEMA, NYSDEC, and the US Army Corps of Engineers.

Because Mr. Bello may have  ALSO seen that the NYS Canal Corporation has had an embankment blowout in Macedon, is currently closed at the Genesee River and other places due to DANGEROUS water conditions, and is also busy removing a 80' tall tree that UPROOTED on the highest hazard rated Embankment in Perinton. that blocked the Empire Trail. And maybe he was told that another "near miss" accident report is being filed somewhere in NYPA right now.

No, the continued DENIAL of the embankment safety issues faced by Canal Neighbors, living along the Canal, and the public using the Canal System, will have to continue for this Facebook group. They have nothing else to support their false claims that "trees are good", other than their refusal to accept otherwise.

Even if Adam Bello does accept the truth, and keeps his thoughts to himself...


Doug K

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So Predictable.

This was posted today to the Facebook Site of Ms. Elizabeth Agte, who's pushing against Canal Embankment safety work. It was in response to the "call to arms" for members of this group to start emailing Monroe County Executive, Adam Bello




Not sure why the "member" chose NOT to post this "herself"... anonymous authors can save face easier I guess.



Well anyway, the ECNA was a bit ahead of this curve, when we took the advice of Ms. Virginia Maier , another co-founder this group, and the ECNA sent it's own email to Mr. Bello... which you can read below. Note the Date & Time.




As you can see, Mr. Bello has been made aware of the truth, and also that these other emails would be coming along.

We are fairly positive that Mr. Bello will NOT fall victim to the rhetoric of this Facebook group. He MUST listen to the Canal Corporation, when they state that their Earthen Embankments are UNSAFE for the public living around the canal, and those using it in his county.

He is also smart enough to understand that when a New York State Canal PROGRAM is being initiated, called Earthen Embankment Integrity, which outlines trees and other invasive vegetation as the PROBLEM, it is probably NOT THE BEST TIME to start thinking it's better to "save the trees".

Mr Bello is also a "public servant", and is bound by oath to serve & protect the people of this county & state, in his role as Monroe County CEO

Ms. Agte, Ms. Maier, well they are not public servants, no oath taken, and frankly, what they are doing is a disservice to the public in some people's eyes.



You can't blame the "blind" that are being led in all this... just take a look what "blind leadership" brings to the table.




Do you start to understand? What this Eastside Group is saying is going to happen along the Canal is horrible, devastating, a blight on the canal beauty. Take a look at the pictures of the Westside, where embankments were already managed by an embankment clearing project.

Is this what devastation looks like?






The NY Canal Corporation and parent NYPA, have stated they have an issue with unmaintained, unmanaged, overgrown canal embankments.

These embankments have become unsafe because of trees, tree roots, animals building burrows by tree trunks & their roots.

Multiply that issue with the fact that ALL this vegetation makes it IMPOSSIBLE for the Canal Corp to inspect THEIR PROPERTY, with 125 miles of raised earthen dams, and many have never had an inspection in almost 100 years.

It's a disaster just waiting to hit national news. Probably will be called the NY Canal Catastrophe on NBC with Lester Holt

These are earthen dams, they leak naturally, but without proper covering of grass, which allows for a proper inspection, the Canal Corporation cant see where the worst leaks are, and fix them BEFORE they become a problem, if possible.

And the issue is VEGETATION...all of it. Trees to Ragweed, all has to go.

Does anyone really think that it's OK to change the topic from public safety and Fixing Unsafe Earthen Canal Embankments to "Save the Trees causing the Problem" just because a group on Facebook says that they think it's best?

With no proof, and only these sorts of misrepresentations by the group's leaders?

Really?

« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 08:01:45 am by Doug K »

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Re: Monroe County Executive Bello and the STCC
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 04:36:49 pm »
The statement that says it all

Does anyone really think that it's OK to change the topic from public safety and Fixing Unsafe Earthen Canal Embankments to "Save the Trees causing the Problem" just because a group on Facebook says that they think it's best?


Michael Caswell

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This is fishy!
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2021, 05:17:19 am »


I had to wonder why the author of this wasn't mentioned. Shy perhaps?  Or more likely written by none other than Lizzy herself?
It certainly has that 'extremist' ring about it.

The real mystery here is that this group perpetuates flogging a dead horse.

Does she really think Mr Bello will take any notice of this rant?
I guess THAT is what is laughable!

Oh! Dear!  They're getting more and more extreme by the day.

 (I see LJ has reared her head again to pop in a 'like'.)

« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 05:30:12 am by Michael Caswell »

Michael Caswell

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Re: This is fishy!
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2021, 05:40:43 am »


Bad ass?  Really?  Note, they both got the response from the office of Mr Bello. The standard letter of no comment methinks.

Isn't Ms Anvelt the one who lives next to Irondequoit Creek, and right under the dam? I guess she hasn't looked at the huge wall of water hanging over her and her property.

Talk about denial!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 05:42:51 am by Michael Caswell »

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Re: This is fishy!
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2021, 08:48:15 am »
Maybe that mystery letter to Adam Bello was from E.Agte herself. She stated that the "reply" she received was the same as Karen A. and said something about being liked more. So obviously Agte did send an email along to the County Executive. So where is the Bello Letter from Miss Agte, if it's not the one she herself posted for "a member" who remains aonymous?

Really starting to look fishy, and maybe E.Agte has been caught in yet another misrepresentation of fact. Her address is Perinton, hardly a constituent from Pittsford. So maybe that's why she hasn't posted her own letter, under her own identity, or is really trying to pass it off as from another concerned member of her group?

Mike, didn't you say she lived in a nearby neighborhood of the Oxbow?

Fishy? Yes, very.


Doug K

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Re: This is fishy!
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2021, 09:34:23 am »
Good Catch, you may have solved the riddle.

Yes, Ms.Agte lives in Perinton, just beyond the Fairport Village border, Mike C is on the Fairport side, the Oxbow Dam & Lake is in-between.