Opposition to the Stop The Canal Clearcut Movement > Opposition to the Stop The Canal Clearcut Movement

Borden Maier is at it again!

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Michael Caswell:
Here's her latest STCC post

Virginia Borden Maier

December 5 at 4:10 PM
It's been quiet on this page for a while, so I thought I'd provide an update...

This picture from June 2018 reminds us of what we are still guarding against -- and hoping to repair.

It's been a little more than two years since Elizabeth R. Agte and I met at a public meeting in Brighton after the clearcutting had already started out west. The group that had its seed at that meeting -- this group -- was an important partner in effectively stopping the destruction in early 2018. But even though the Canal Corporation is now forced to work through the state environmental process they initially ignored (and disrespected again when ripping out the remaining tree stumps last winter), they haven't ever changed their public stance -- they still think that trees should be removed from the raised embankments of the Canal.

We are still waiting for the much delayed "Earthen Embankment Integrity Program" guidebook, which is now slated to be released in February 2020. That guidebook is meant to set out the rules for how to manage the embankment, importantly under what conditions the Canal Corporation will seek to remove trees. (Of course, we still disagree that trees are a significant risk and don't believe the default should be removal).

Before the guidebook is released, we should see the "scoping document" which outlines the issues that the agency will consider in the environmental impact statement about this guidebook. The scoping document was scheduled to be released in late November, but as of this week's Environmental Notice Bulletin, has not been made publicly available. We would very much like to see the guidebook at the time of the scoping document -- but all requests by us to view a draft guidebook have been denied.

We hope that the delayed scoping document means we will have a quiet holiday season, but the Canal Corporation often chooses inconvenient times to make announcements/schedule meetings/seek public input. There's no reason to think this time will be different.



When you see ignorance and blind stupidity like this, one has to realise why The Canal Corp has refused to engage these people.  The STCC group are effectively, 'out in the cold' these days.

She (Maier) calls the tree removal 'destruction', but folks need to look carefully at what is being 'destroyed'.  Amur Honeysuckle, Bittersweet vines, 150 feet tall Cottonwoods, Black Locust, Red Twig Dogwood, ragweed, Garlic mustard, and much more, all designated illegal, or invasive species.

She never once mentions how the STCC has figured out how to effectively patrol these dams to ensure they aren't leaking, or collapsing. Never once has the STCC mentioned the 200 feet long repair (using 40 feet deep steel sheets hammered into the trail vertically) they did at The Oxbow last year. Never once have they mentioned making an early warning system in case there is a problem so neighbors can evacuate. They simply don't see (or more likely don't want to see) any danger in these dilapidated structures.

I want to  make a list of all the reasons why this work is so vital to the well being of the villages, but when there is this level of denial with this group, I think it would be a waste of time.

Hey! Ho!




Michael Caswell:
Virginia!

You say "Of course, we still disagree that trees are a significant risk and don't believe the default should be removal."
Despite all the evidence submitted by Rizzo Engineering and other inspectors, you believe there is no risk, and are prepared to gamble with people's safety?
What grounds and qualifications does your group have to make that determination?
So, what is your solution? How are you going to inspect these dangerous dams?
How will you stop widow maker limbs from falling on trail walkers?
How will you stop 150 tall Cottonwoods from ripping holes in the embankments when they topple in a storm?
How will you get machinery into the area to effect repairs if a leak develops?
What exactly is your plan to save people from drowning?
Come on please!  Enlighten us all!



Doug K:
Mike,

I was going to pass on a reply, but knew you and others would be disappointed. It's sad that it's come full circle and some still just don't get it. Read my general reply here... it's a good one for others to think about who are still waiting on their unsafe dams to be repaired.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/general-discussion/of-course-this-is-still-about-public-safety-why-wouldnt-it-be/msg871/#msg871

A few things to consider when reading Ms Maier's Statement she placed online for ALL her fans to see...

Ms. Maier:  The Canal Corporation haven't ever changed their public stance -- they still think that trees should be removed from the raised embankments of the Canal.


ECNA: Of course the NY Canal Corporation team hasn't changed their message of safety, they are responsible for the safety of people who use their property in New York. They do NOT have to "luxury" that the Stop the Clear Cut group members or it's leadership seems to have, of simply ignoring Public Safety Issues with the Canal Embankment Structures or the words Unsafe Dams. The STCC has shown zero responsibility towards public safety from day one, even failing to call these structures by the proper name...Dams.

Ms. Maier: We are still waiting for the much delayed "Earthen Embankment Integrity Program" guidebook, which is now slated to be released in February 2020. That guidebook is meant to set out the rules for how to manage the embankment... Of course, we still disagree that trees are a significant risk and don't believe the default should be removal.

ECNA: Of course you still disagree with tree removal, otherwise you would have to change the name of your Facebook Group. You also don't agree that these embankments are earthen dams, or that NY State can manage it's own property. This group & it's leaders have ZERO supporting data, ZERO experts who are willing to go on the record supporting them, and still believe that saving dangerous trees are more important than people's lives or their neighbor's safety.

Ms. Maier: Before the guidebook is released, we should see the "scoping document" which outlines the issues that the agency will consider in the environmental impact statement about this guidebook. We would very much like to see the guidebook at the time of the scoping document -- but all requests by us to view a draft guidebook have been denied.

ECNA: Of course the NY Canal Corporation has denied all of your requests... the same way you and your group have denied the REAL truth of the Earthen Embankment Integrity Program efforts. Why would the NY Canal Corp discuss anything related to a Public Safety program with a group who after 2+ years still is unable, or unwilling, to admit they didn't fully understand the seriousness of the work, or the fact that they have NO business interfering with work that enhances public safety at all... but they don't seem to care about that word safety... do they?

They aren't talking to you because they know your ears are just there for decoration...

Ms. Maier: We hope that the delayed scoping document means we will have a quiet holiday season, but the Canal Corporation often chooses inconvenient times to make announcements/schedule meetings/seek public input. There's no reason to think this time will be different.

ECNA: Sorry that public safety & insuring people do not die in a canal flood aren't convenient for you and your holiday prep. Insuring Public Safety isn't something that has a distinct timetable and is a laborious process to insure nothing is missed or left to chance.

The ECNA is also sure the state agencies involved with NY Canal Safety have learned their lesson about "over-estimating" public's intelligence to NOT fight against efforts to keep them safe from unsafe dams in our towns & villages. This is still a mystery to everyone who has any amount of intelligence... why people would fight against efforts to make the Erie Canal safe and sustainable for it's next 100 years.

Why nothing will change in Year 3 of the continuing saga of the Battle for the Erie Canal.

The REAL issue here with Ms. Maier and her mis-guided group is very simple... they are stuck between the proverbial "rock & a hard place".

They can't admit Safety Issues are the root of the Canal Work now, after all they have said and done. Doing so would result in too many people roasting them publicly for being way too CARELESS about their safety and well-being of our communities. They chose to ignore the message and safety and now will have to see how that strategy works out. Anyone care to guess that answer?

They would have to admit they were wrong, wrong about getting involved where they shouldn't have and wrong about the Embankment Safety Issues. This is NOT their property or their safety issue, they admit to only be "spectators along the NYS Empire Trail. No responsibility, no one bringing them to court if a flood happens or a tree falls and kills someone. They can throw stones all they want with zero responsibility to provide an answer to fixing unsafe dams. They still to this day have zero answer to how these embankments get inspected properly when they are full of trees.

They would lose all credibility with a group that relied on this leadership team to be honest & truthful about the Canal, and it's safety issues.. which we now know they were not. They have lied about this canal project, they have distorted the truth and made up much of their toxic rhetoric simply because they say "It's the gut feeling". Frankly their gut feeling makes many, with any amount of intelligence, want to throw up at this groups lack knowledge regarding Dam Safety.

They have tried to change the subject from selling the trees for money, as their original name suggested, to saying the Canal Corporation is overplaying their safety concerns, which we also now know they are not doing. How do we know that? Because the Canal Corp is still say the same thing...Trees on Dams Kill People... shame on us if we don't chose to hear that message loud & clear.

Folks, The ECNA is still mystified why the people of Fairport, Brighton & Pittsford have NOT risen up and boycotted the Stop the Clear Cut group and it's leaders from speaking about this subject ever again. It's absurd to fight against a NY State supported Public Safety Program meant to refurbish the state's Canal System and bring the waterway into State & Federal compliance.

Fighting against safety work is just plain dumb, and residents in these villages are acting just as dumb letting this happen... simply astonishing.



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