Author Topic: It's Not!  (Read 154 times)

Michael Caswell

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It's Not!
« on: October 25, 2021, 07:30:13 pm »
The Erie Canal Earthen Embankments are a MAN MADE STRUCTURE!   

Here's what Ms Maier of STCC notoriety had to say today  ---

Virginia Borden Maier shared a link.
October 24, 2021 9:03pm

The Canal Recreationway Commission met last week and a recording of the meeting is here. Rebecca Hughes provides commissioners with a summary of the EEIP starting around 15 minutes in; questions are deferred to the end, and you can hear a couple from commissioners and their responses starting around 1 hour 21 min of the recording.

Ms. Hughes did seem to downplay our comments by referring to them to the commissioners as “auto-generated,” which is fairly disingenuous. Elizabeth R. Agte and I have seen every one of those responses, and most — many hundreds— include very heartfelt and personal messages asking to preserve the natural environment. I do hope that they are not using our innovative _mechanism_ for sending our input to them as a way to dismiss the meaningfulness of this input!

The EMBANKMENTS are NOT a NATURAL ENVIRONMENT! It is a DAM, to impound water to enable barges to transport product.

It was not made to provide shade to strollers, and holiday makers, nor was it made to provide homes for squirrels or invasive vegetation growth.

The STCC spouts romantic nonsense over these damned trees, which have no right to be there.


« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 08:38:03 am by Doug K »

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Doug K

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Once again it's just more of the same with this Facebook crew... they seem to never listen and never learn from their own mistakes.

Here's the familiar MO... modus operandi

1) Deny the message being shared & the truth about public safety.

2) Ridicule & Shoot the Messenger, who's always the NYS Canal Corporation

3) Repeat the same mistakes and look foolish once again.

It appears that this STCC Facebook group's attempt to influence the Canal Corporation Embankment Program, using a technique that what most would call "ballot box stuffing", was recently called out at a NY Canal Corporation meeting or two. Their "helpful ideas" to improve the SEQR Environmental documents they requested, was basically stated to be nothing more than a bunch of auto-generated letters, sharing the groups opinions.

Those hundreds of letters can be summed up with these words... "The STCC group on Facebook, doesn't like your EEIP plan, leave the trees there"

So the group,  and it's leaders, were told that the "quality" of their suggestions wasn't value adding, and the method of getting their "quantity" wasn't really canvasing the "general public". It was considered a "fill in the blank" form letter, auto-generated, and adding NO VALUE.

Once again, the NYS Canal Corporation was seeking public input, to improve State Environmental documents for a Canal Embankment Safety Program, and they tried to include all, but it was SPECIFIC. They even pointed to the SEQR and EEIP Guidebook Chapters they felt this group could add some value, the chapter on Communication was one area that was cited, and something this FB group complained most about.

But instead of helping add value, this group on Facebook went into their "daily whine" about not liking the plan, stating that there is "no danger" from embankments, and that the Canal Corporation isn't listening to them. And they tried to pass off comments by a disgruntled group of Facebook users as "the will of the public", when it obviously was formed on the lies & misinformation of the group's two founders.

After all , THEY are the EXPERTS, and the only people with the solution are in this small Facebook Group... just ask them.

Doesn't that sound familiar? People saying that  "they alone have all the answers", hmmm.

Just maybe, if the group ever said something of value, that all might change. But the Canal Corporation has had it's limit with this Facebook Group's denial of the public safety issues. That fact has become obvious now.

The groups two Founders have "bragged" that their idea of a canned form letter for "Embankment Program Input" was clever, but the NYS Canal Corporation didn't see it that way.  Instead their "mass attack", using a canned response and "fill in the blank" return addresses, was called out by Rebecca Hughes as "auto generated" forms, and had basically "no value" to the overall matter at hand. It added NO value to the Communication Chapter, and basically was people's "opinions & feelings", as we have heard.

Now, you would think that since this "auto-generated" blitz of letters didn't work the first time, this Facebook Group might change how they do things, right?


The group's FOUNDERS only dig their heals in more and move on to pester the next person they think is "doing them wrong"... the NYS Governor.

Here's another example of why Facebook, and the misinformation groups it proliferates, are a sickness and blight far worse that Covid ever will be.

SOME BACKGROUND on this "auto-generated" letter issue... here's their FB post on not liking their letters being termed "auto-generated"

And here's their "New Plan to fight against restoring Canal Embankments to their original safety factor or better.

It's now become a "postcard avalanche", I can see these group member filling out postcards using their annual Christmas Card mailing list

Some people just refuse to admit the obvious....

« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 07:50:23 am by Doug K »

Doug K

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And just like that... the same thing happens with this Stop the Clear-Cut group (STCC); denial of the truth.

The Facebook group is once again trying to "stuff the ballot box" but doesn't want to call it "auto-generated responses". They have been called out already, by the NYS Canal Corporation, for doing the same thing with the "input" to their Embankment Dam Integrity Program.

And now that they avenue of complaint is shut off, the group is pestering the NYS Governor's office with their rhetoric that "canal beauty matters more than canal safety".

Here's the latest from the group's Founder, about the "postcard avalanche" that isn't "auto-generated"...

So if you tell people to sign names and add a return address, it makes it all official, you can then "say" it's not "auto-generated" on Facebook. After all, who would think YOUR Christmas card list, transferred to 100 post cards, with a SIGNATURE added, would ever be questioned as "not authentic"?

I guess if the group wants to continue to deny the safety issues along the canal AND state incorrectly that nothing needs to be done to fix unsafe earthen dams they can simply say that what their doing is "just fine".. and in no way should be construed as auto-generated "group think" put onto postcards or letters.

That might work if the FB group's founders weren't so OBVIOUS at "filling in the blanks".. as they say. Do you think if I type in ALL CAPS the group will understand the simple truth that still seems to evade their understanding?


1) Don't post on Facebook that you intend to create a postcard auto-generation event

2) Don't post on Facebook what you want (or think) people should be saying in that auto-generation event.

3) Don't post on Facebook the exact date that people should send in their responses for that auto-generation event.

On the bright side, if there is one here, the group says it's 1000s strong, yet most must be there for the drama.  The amount of members that gave smiley faces and support for the Postcard Avalanche, was about a dozen or two... so probably limited just a few Christmas Card lists. So what are the other hundreds & hundreds of STCC members there for if, not to fill in a few dozen postcards with what the Group Leaders told them to say?

Again, it must be for the drama, for the comedy, or just to say that they were "part of a cause", even if they're rooting for the "wrong side" and don't know it.

It seems there are lots of people rooting from the grandstands in this Facebook group, but few actually want to "join in" the working part. So the hundreds of "auto-generated" postcards the Governor gets, most likely will be just that, sent by the handful in this group that still want to believe that the canal is not falling apart and trees are not the cause.

Trees on  Earthen Dams are UNSAFE.. period. That's what the truth is here, no matter how many postcards want to deny that fact.  

In fact, STCC member support seems to be waning fast, as evidence by this bit from their Facebook page:

The Stop the Canal Clear-Cut co-founders tried to host a little get-together, a few weeks back, to celebrate their last campaign to flood the NYSCC with auto-generated form letters. This group outing was announced on their Facebook page. It was being held at a local establishment that served alcohol, had good food and a great view of the Erie Canal

You would think that the place would be mobbed, RSVP's flying all over the STCC page on Facebook... standing room only. But the truth is sadly no, none of that happened.

But this non-event celebration only pushed hard on that question of why people would join a Facebook group like this one.

And the answer is simple. It's not for "social" reasons.

Otherwise the co-founders wouldn't have been disappointed with the turn-out, partially blaming "the weather" for the dismal showing of their "1000s of members".

And certainly the Celebration Post on their Facebook Page wouldn't have received so many "excuses" from those not showing, which were 10x more from those saying "see you there".

And the other thousands of members? Well maybe they didn't think writing that they had to "clean their sock drawer" would be a good enough reason for their absence perhaps.

This has to be the biggest wake-up call, to date, for STCC Leadership,  an indication that their group has lost something very important... a sense of purpose and sense of direction. Or maybe it's just a vote of "no-confidence" in the group's leadership, who still ostracizes anyone who disagrees with their made up facts, or truth-flimsy "experts".

But that would just be wishful thinking on the part of MILLIONS of Erie Canal Neighbors... well maybe just a bit of exaggeration there.

Sadly this was just another chance for the group's co-founders (& members) to deny the facts & distort the truth.

I'm sure the crowd was SO BIG they couldn't all fit into a selfie picture, yellow shade shirts & all.

Just want to go on the record... even though Mike Caswell & I were not asked to attend the STCC Meetup we are not disappointed. In fact, we DID have some serious conflicts for events that day... we BOTH had to clean our sock drawers. Sorry we could not make it, really...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 08:40:29 am by Doug K »

Doug K

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And she is SERIOUS.

No early sending of Post Cards as this Facebook member was told, exclamation point added (to insure compliance perhaps).

This new postcard avalanche post from FB today... November 1.

Not auto-generated, really?

You tell people what you want them to send, what to say on that thing being sent, what type of canal picture to add to it, where to buy the item, and then when to mail the response out... and NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!

Sounds pretty "robotic", just like an "auto-generated" response would be, similar to internet SPAMMING, but old school.

So again, the bright side in all this...

1) The STCC is helping US Postal Service survive with their stamp purchases.
2) They are helping the local economy out, buying all these Erie Canal Postcards that will get tossed away.
3) The Albany refuse collection for the NYS Government gets extra paper to pickup & recycle

The auto-generated postcard avalanche will NOT result in the NYS Canal Corporation changing it's mind on Erie Canal Safety... silly to believe it would have.

Unsafe overgrown trees & vegetation will be cleared, earthen dams will be made safe once again... life will go on.

The Erie Canal will be restored to it's 1926 Grand Opening Day "look".

That is the ONLY way to insure that the NYS Canal system will be sustainable for yet another 100 years...

Figure it out folks... this happens every 100 years.

1826 - Erie Canal Opens Fully for Operation, bringing the East, to the West, in America
1926 - NYS Barge Canal replaces the original Erie Canal and opens fully for 100 more years of operation
2026 - NYS Erie/Barge Canal restored to original state, for 200th Anniversary and 21st century sustainability.
2126 - ??? TBD...

« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 01:21:08 pm by Doug K »