Author Topic: The Erie Canal is not a DAM, she says.  (Read 59 times)

Michael Caswell

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The Erie Canal is not a DAM, she says.
« on: September 12, 2021, 12:28:16 pm »
Jennifer asked -Can anyone knowledgeable help me understand where the canal embankments actually function as levees? In areas I am familiar with along the canal, the surrounding land is higher than the water, so the canal bank is like a riverbank. A riverbank is strengthened when it is covered with vegetation. A levee isolates a watery area from land that is (at least sometimes) lower, so there is more pressure on the barrier.
There are a thousand miles of levees on the Sacramento River delta, near where I grew up, and they are kept free of trees because tree roots can in fact cause seepage. That environment seems completely different from the parts of the Canal I know. In the Sacramento River delta, large areas are below sea level, so the levees are under big pressure, and they are relatively narrow, not like riverbanks.
Where along the Erie Canal is the land lower than the water?


And because no one else has, and obviously we can't post on the STCC Facebook page (I wonder what they are afraid of? The TRUTH perhaps?)


Attn Jennifer Goheen

I'll try to answer your questions posted on the STCC Facebook page. I am NOT a member, as you probably well know!

This page will probably help you.
https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2017/12/20/is-it-a-dam-embankment-levee-ditch-or-dike/

To simplify this, the embankment dam is some 60 feet plus tall and runs from 31f in Fairport to The Great Embankment Park in Pittsford.

This is subject to about 15 feet depth of water, creating about 20 PSI at the bottom of the channel. Thats about the same as a garden hose turned on at half choke. A few hours of that sort of leak could cause a breech in the dam.

The water contained behind this dam will flood Jefferson Ave to Irondequoit creek, and all of the Marsh Rd area to a depth to 10-12 feet.

The force/weight of this water creates something called the PHREATIC LINE as it naturally seeps through the earthen embankment.

Vegetation on a LEVEE is a good thing, as it prevents the water flow from eroding the higher embankment, but it never gets a phreatic line and cannot be considered a dam because it is dry 99.9% of its life.

Vegetation on a DAM is completely different.
Here's why.

https://youtu.be/BNFQ1EJX4h0

https://youtu.be/5CcVSVhAYvA

https://youtu.be/vy6mhgUZeIY

https://ecna.createaforum.com/general-discussion/important-announcement-coming-soon/msg178/#msg178

Unfortunately, all this is lost on the STCC. They have ignored all expert advise, and even lied to people, as you can see here.

https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/testimony-in-question-vegetation-on-dams/

For a more in depth study, please go to www.eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com



Michael Caswell

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The Erie Canal is not a DAM, she says.
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2021, 07:59:54 am »
Ok!  STCC! I've read this comment numerous times and I've heard the STCC members mention the canal being, 'Wooded Slopes', 'Levees' and 'parks'.

So! Here's your chance, pick one, and explain why you think it should be called such!

And tell us exactly why it is NOT a dam. If you know it's not a dam, then you must know what a dam is. We'd love to know the thought process here.

Thanks


Doug K

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Re: The Erie Canal is not a DAM, she says.
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2021, 09:06:11 am »
Maybe the words from the Group's Founder can set things straight?

Seems she understands the message from the Canal Corporation, but STILL simply refuses to accept it. Still refuses to accept the supporting data, the supporting SEQR Environmental Review, and the Embankment Maintenance Gudebook that says Earthen Dams have standards and rules that Dam Owners have to comply with. She only believes her own "valued opinion"

And this Facebook group somehow still thinks Erie Canal Dam Trail USERS are the "primary Stakeholders", not those hundreds of Erie Canal Neighbors living below the danger, or the community beyond, who would bear the brunt of a flood from a sudden Canal Embankment breach.

Best statement that has come from this group is highlighted below.


« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 10:43:59 am by Doug K »

Doug K

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This Facebook group still can't seem to figure out that they aren't "stakeholders", they are simply "Park Guests"... and that's why their "opinion" is being heard, but not acted upon. They can't be "real stakeholders" if they don't believe the actual OWNERS of the Canal System, who have stated clearly that the Public is in Danger from the canal. Real stakeholders would be concerned about loss of human life, any possible loss of human life, and loss of property.

This is a group of Canal Tourists, who are trying to convince themselves they are stakeholders because they walk on the property...nothing more.





Stakeholders are those folks who might be Canal Neighbors losing their homes as the Embankment breaches behind their property.

Stakeholders are those who might live 3 miles away from the canal, in a flood inundation zone, and come home to find their property 6 feet underwater

Stakeholders are those who would have to somehow settle the millions of dollars of public lawsuits from an Embankment breach in NY State

Stakeholders are those people who actually would have a physical loss if something catastrophic were to happen along the Erie Canal

If there was a breach along the canal Embankment and it was closed for repair, Ms Agte, and many of her followers, would simply whine about their "discomfort " on Facebook and go somewhere else to walk that day... or sit there staring at something they refused to accept could happen, even though they were warned by the owners

All this while "real stakeholders" would be picking up the pieces of their lives from an Earthen Embankment Breach a Facebook group claimed will "never happen here".



Just an FYI: Pure Denial, of any issue, can only go so far, when all of the data, all the experts, and overwhelming truth & facts are aligned against the denial of that issue.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 10:44:36 am by Doug K »