Author Topic: Maier Madness  (Read 135 times)

Michael Caswell

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Maier Madness
« on: June 21, 2019, 02:38:50 pm »
Ginny Maier never gives up - it seems.

https://rochesterbeacon.com/2019/06/21/trees-belong-on-the-erie-canal/

And here is my response to that.


« Last Edit: June 21, 2019, 02:41:44 pm by Michael Caswell »

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Doug K

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Re: Maier Madness
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2019, 01:36:59 pm »
And here is my response.. sent to the Rochester Beacon and should be posted soon.



Take a moment to read the entire reply post here:
* Why Trees do not belong on Erie Canal Dams.pdf (509.88 kB - downloaded 4 times.)

Michael Caswell

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Re: Maier Madness
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2019, 07:59:05 am »
What really puzzles me is that no one from the STCC ever mentions the EMERGENCY WORK the NYPA carried out, right outside my house on the Oxbow in Fairport.

FOR OVER THREE WEEKS they hammered 40' long sheets of steel into the top of the embankment dams,  for a length of 200 feet. Everyone in Fairport must have heard the noise, yet hardly anyone I spoke to seems to know anything about it. The ignorance is deafening!

And the STCC have NEVER once mentioned this fact!  Why? Because as far as they are concerned, there never has been a safety issue. Yet, the RIZZO Engineering Company's inspections prove there was a HUGE problem right here, and the embankment at the Oxbow was in imminent danger of collapse.

Now that folks - is pure deception on the part of the STCC! 

Michael Caswell

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Borden Maier is at it again!
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 11:04:56 am »
Here's her latest STCC post

Virginia Borden Maier

December 5 at 4:10 PM
It's been quiet on this page for a while, so I thought I'd provide an update...

This picture from June 2018 reminds us of what we are still guarding against -- and hoping to repair.

It's been a little more than two years since Elizabeth R. Agte and I met at a public meeting in Brighton after the clearcutting had already started out west. The group that had its seed at that meeting -- this group -- was an important partner in effectively stopping the destruction in early 2018. But even though the Canal Corporation is now forced to work through the state environmental process they initially ignored (and disrespected again when ripping out the remaining tree stumps last winter), they haven't ever changed their public stance -- they still think that trees should be removed from the raised embankments of the Canal.

We are still waiting for the much delayed "Earthen Embankment Integrity Program" guidebook, which is now slated to be released in February 2020. That guidebook is meant to set out the rules for how to manage the embankment, importantly under what conditions the Canal Corporation will seek to remove trees. (Of course, we still disagree that trees are a significant risk and don't believe the default should be removal).

Before the guidebook is released, we should see the "scoping document" which outlines the issues that the agency will consider in the environmental impact statement about this guidebook. The scoping document was scheduled to be released in late November, but as of this week's Environmental Notice Bulletin, has not been made publicly available. We would very much like to see the guidebook at the time of the scoping document -- but all requests by us to view a draft guidebook have been denied.

We hope that the delayed scoping document means we will have a quiet holiday season, but the Canal Corporation often chooses inconvenient times to make announcements/schedule meetings/seek public input. There's no reason to think this time will be different.



When you see ignorance and blind stupidity like this, one has to realise why The Canal Corp has refused to engage these people.  The STCC group are effectively, 'out in the cold' these days.

She (Maier) calls the tree removal 'destruction', but folks need to look carefully at what is being 'destroyed'.  Amur Honeysuckle, Bittersweet vines, 150 feet tall Cottonwoods, Black Locust, Red Twig Dogwood, ragweed, Garlic mustard, and much more, all designated illegal, or invasive species.

She never once mentions how the STCC has figured out how to effectively patrol these dams to ensure they aren't leaking, or collapsing. Never once has the STCC mentioned the 200 feet long repair (using 40 feet deep steel sheets hammered into the trail vertically) they did at The Oxbow last year. Never once have they mentioned making an early warning system in case there is a problem so neighbors can evacuate. They simply don't see (or more likely don't want to see) any danger in these dilapidated structures.

I want to  make a list of all the reasons why this work is so vital to the well being of the villages, but when there is this level of denial with this group, I think it would be a waste of time.

Hey! Ho!




« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 11:11:38 am by Michael Caswell »

Michael Caswell

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Re: Borden Maier is at it again!
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2019, 03:32:46 pm »
Virginia!

You say "Of course, we still disagree that trees are a significant risk and don't believe the default should be removal."
Despite all the evidence submitted by Rizzo Engineering and other inspectors, you believe there is no risk, and are prepared to gamble with people's safety?
What grounds and qualifications does your group have to make that determination?
So, what is your solution? How are you going to inspect these dangerous dams?
How will you stop widow maker limbs from falling on trail walkers?
How will you stop 150 tall Cottonwoods from ripping holes in the embankments when they topple in a storm?
How will you get machinery into the area to effect repairs if a leak develops?
What exactly is your plan to save people from drowning?
Come on please!  Enlighten us all!



« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 02:16:56 pm by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Re: Borden Maier is at it again!
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2019, 11:05:21 am »
Mike,

I was going to pass on a reply, but knew you and others would be disappointed. It's sad that it's come full circle and some still just don't get it. Read my general reply here... it's a good one for others to think about who are still waiting on their unsafe dams to be repaired.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/general-discussion/of-course-this-is-still-about-public-safety-why-wouldnt-it-be/msg871/#msg871

A few things to consider when reading Ms Maier's Statement she placed online for ALL her fans to see...

Ms. Maier:  The Canal Corporation haven't ever changed their public stance -- they still think that trees should be removed from the raised embankments of the Canal.


ECNA: Of course the NY Canal Corporation team hasn't changed their message of safety, they are responsible for the safety of people who use their property in New York. They do NOT have to "luxury" that the Stop the Clear Cut group members or it's leadership seems to have, of simply ignoring Public Safety Issues with the Canal Embankment Structures or the words Unsafe Dams. The STCC has shown zero responsibility towards public safety from day one, even failing to call these structures by the proper name...Dams.

Ms. Maier: We are still waiting for the much delayed "Earthen Embankment Integrity Program" guidebook, which is now slated to be released in February 2020. That guidebook is meant to set out the rules for how to manage the embankment... Of course, we still disagree that trees are a significant risk and don't believe the default should be removal.

ECNA: Of course you still disagree with tree removal, otherwise you would have to change the name of your Facebook Group. You also don't agree that these embankments are earthen dams, or that NY State can manage it's own property. This group & it's leaders have ZERO supporting data, ZERO experts who are willing to go on the record supporting them, and still believe that saving dangerous trees are more important than people's lives or their neighbor's safety.

Ms. Maier: Before the guidebook is released, we should see the "scoping document" which outlines the issues that the agency will consider in the environmental impact statement about this guidebook. We would very much like to see the guidebook at the time of the scoping document -- but all requests by us to view a draft guidebook have been denied.

ECNA: Of course the NY Canal Corporation has denied all of your requests... the same way you and your group have denied the REAL truth of the Earthen Embankment Integrity Program efforts. Why would the NY Canal Corp discuss anything related to a Public Safety program with a group who after 2+ years still is unable, or unwilling, to admit they didn't fully understand the seriousness of the work, or the fact that they have NO business interfering with work that enhances public safety at all... but they don't seem to care about that word safety... do they?

They aren't talking to you because they know your ears are just there for decoration...

Ms. Maier: We hope that the delayed scoping document means we will have a quiet holiday season, but the Canal Corporation often chooses inconvenient times to make announcements/schedule meetings/seek public input. There's no reason to think this time will be different.

ECNA: Sorry that public safety & insuring people do not die in a canal flood aren't convenient for you and your holiday prep. Insuring Public Safety isn't something that has a distinct timetable and is a laborious process to insure nothing is missed or left to chance.

The ECNA is also sure the state agencies involved with NY Canal Safety have learned their lesson about "over-estimating" public's intelligence to NOT fight against efforts to keep them safe from unsafe dams in our towns & villages. This is still a mystery to everyone who has any amount of intelligence... why people would fight against efforts to make the Erie Canal safe and sustainable for it's next 100 years.

Why nothing will change in Year 3 of the continuing saga of the Battle for the Erie Canal.

The REAL issue here with Ms. Maier and her mis-guided group is very simple... they are stuck between the proverbial "rock & a hard place".

They can't admit Safety Issues are the root of the Canal Work now, after all they have said and done. Doing so would result in too many people roasting them publicly for being way too CARELESS about their safety and well-being of our communities. They chose to ignore the message and safety and now will have to see how that strategy works out. Anyone care to guess that answer?

They would have to admit they were wrong, wrong about getting involved where they shouldn't have and wrong about the Embankment Safety Issues. This is NOT their property or their safety issue, they admit to only be "spectators along the NYS Empire Trail. No responsibility, no one bringing them to court if a flood happens or a tree falls and kills someone. They can throw stones all they want with zero responsibility to provide an answer to fixing unsafe dams. They still to this day have zero answer to how these embankments get inspected properly when they are full of trees.

They would lose all credibility with a group that relied on this leadership team to be honest & truthful about the Canal, and it's safety issues.. which we now know they were not. They have lied about this canal project, they have distorted the truth and made up much of their toxic rhetoric simply because they say "It's the gut feeling". Frankly their gut feeling makes many, with any amount of intelligence, want to throw up at this groups lack knowledge regarding Dam Safety.

They have tried to change the subject from selling the trees for money, as their original name suggested, to saying the Canal Corporation is overplaying their safety concerns, which we also now know they are not doing. How do we know that? Because the Canal Corp is still say the same thing...Trees on Dams Kill People... shame on us if we don't chose to hear that message loud & clear.

Folks, The ECNA is still mystified why the people of Fairport, Brighton & Pittsford have NOT risen up and boycotted the Stop the Clear Cut group and it's leaders from speaking about this subject ever again. It's absurd to fight against a NY State supported Public Safety Program meant to refurbish the state's Canal System and bring the waterway into State & Federal compliance.

Fighting against safety work is just plain dumb, and residents in these villages are acting just as dumb letting this happen... simply astonishing.



« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 02:17:14 pm by Michael Caswell »

Michael Caswell

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Unbelievable!
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2020, 12:49:20 pm »



As if the governor has less important things to worry about. These unscientific bored housewives just don't know when to quit.

These folks have deceived several scientific experts they brought forward, stating the trees were growing on a levee, not an earthen embankment dam. Once the ECNA explained the truth, these scientific experts quickly recanted their statements.

I donít know of any earth dams where woody vegetation was purposely planted or allowed to grow on a face of the dam.  Such is not the case with earthen levees where vegetation can often be found growing on both the landward and water sides. says Professor Donald H Gray

I challenge them to find ONE body of professionals who will side with their ridiculous claims that trees are good on an earthen embankment dam.

AND it isn't as if the governor isn't aware of the situation, they received this letter from  Brian Stratton Director NYCC, spelling it out. he even mentioned Dr Gray talking about levees citing that this person has no expertise in the Science of Earthen Dams


https://ecna.createaforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=697.0;attach=3150;image

AND - These bored housewives seem to conveniently forget the major problem here is that the slopes of these dams are too steep. Engineers and hydrology experts  all say ideally the slopes need to be at least 3:1 base length/height. To rectify this the trees MUST be removed.



« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 12:14:18 pm by Michael Caswell »

Michael Caswell

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Re: Unbeievable!
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2020, 01:11:11 pm »
STOP THE PRESS!

Andrew Cuomo's mail box is full and messages are bouncing. I'll bet the few mails he got from the STCC housewives are all lost in the pile of real important things like congratulating him on the wonderful work he is doing keeping us all safe  from COVID-19

Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (email@exec.ny.gov)
The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Please try resending this message later, or contact the recipient directly.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 01:23:36 pm by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Mike,

I'm not sure on the "three bored housewife" thing, it seems Ms Maier is a published author, in Biology Freshman Year College.

It certainly isn't for Dam Hydrology or Dam Design & Engineering, which she seems to simply blow off as a "science" she's not buying into.




What's wrong with Ms Bordan Maier's claims is simple.. it's all a fabrication, it's conjecture on her part, bordering on fantasy and doesn't have any supportive facts or backing of any qualified EXPERTS in the field of Dam Engineering & Safety.

So Ms. Maier became her own expert, making up her own facts, and spinning a story that has now endangered whole communities


The sad part is that if you go back and look at our Posts on Ginny Maier you will see a long history of simply ignoring the truth about Dams and Dam Safety. You will see posts that she states that she is fully aware of the fact that Trees do not belong on Earthen Dams, she just doesn't like it. It would ruin her walk it seems.

No mention of the thousands of her neighbor's lives & livelihoods might be lost in a flood if the trees toppled over and the dam breached

No mention of the facts that the dam is failing already, leaking badly and in need of immediate repair, exactly as the Canal Corporation has stated.


Nope, this is a clear case of what has plagued our country for years now... ENTITLEMENT!


Virginia Borden-Maier feels she's "entitled" to have "her canal the way she wants it"... even if it means others may be at risk. She is one of those folks who isn't wrong, cant be.. ever. She makes claims that cannot be substantiated or supported for keeping trees on dams, so she changes the narrative, complaining about how "safely" the trees have been growing and what a shame if they go.

Again, no mention of the 8 ton tree limb that fell on the canal path in Fairport just hours before the July Bike Tour passed through, that would have killed a bike rider.

And no mention of the tree roots that have caused a sink hole in the western section of the canal a few years back that had to be repaired. Ms. Maier will never talk about the 100s of leaks being actively monitored in canal embankments as we speak.

Most times the group she runs can't decide if the canal is a natural river or man-made... they call the whole thing "natural".

Nope, I'm afraid we will all have to endure the "fake narrative" this group has sold themselves for the extended future... because they have no way to "save face" as they say in China.

The issue they have that plagues them most... They have created a Facebook group of people that actually believed these three Leaders knew what they were talking about with these embankments.

And now they are seeing that was all one big lie as well... How sad when our Leaders turn out to be Liars



ATTENTION: ALL STOP THE CANAL CLEAR_CUT MEMBERS!!!

The Canal Corporation has spelled out the TRUTH about Embankment Dams for everyone to read here.

http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/Draft_Scoping_Document.pdf

It tells the story of why they need to be repaired and how they will be fixing them... by removing the DANGER that the TREES have created.

You can see where they will be working here:

http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/counties/Monroe_municipality.html

And if you want REAL facts about Embankment Dams along the Erie Canal...start here:

http://www.canals.ny.gov/Earthen_Embankment/overview.html

« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 03:52:57 pm by Doug K »

Doug K

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Like we have stated so many times before, this groups grasp of the truth is flimsy at best.

Here we see the group is now back to the Canal being a "natural amenity". But note how "happy" they are and no criticism of the New York State Canal Corporation spending "tax-payer" dollars, when it benefits Ms. Maier's own Village of Fairport.





It's not a river, it's not a natural embankment holding back all that water, it's a man-made Canal. and a waterway that is currently unsafe and is endangering many communities it passes through, as long as it's filled with water. But that doesn't sit well with a group that totally denies the truth about how "natural" the canal is.