Author Topic: She's confused and puzzled!  (Read 76 times)

Michael Caswell

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She's confused and puzzled!
« on: December 29, 2018, 02:01:22 pm »
Posted today by Ms Agte on the STCC Facebook page.

This is video of the stump digging. They don't have a spotter on the ground to look at what the hole looks like, and then it is filled with ground soil, so I'm puzzled when the voids are filled with clay. And they said we didn't need to worry about the freeze thaw cycle I read about with clay fill, because the fill is below the frost line, about five feet down. I'm confused because the tree root balls don't go down five feet.
Sorry for the production value of this film, I forgot to hire "crew" to keep the mayor from walking into my movie...do I have to pay her now as an extra?.


I guess that's the first time MS Agte has admitted she doesn't know what she's doing. What is she doing on site? It's a construction zone. Get off home and leave these experts alone to do their dangerous work.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 07:23:32 pm by Michael Caswell »

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Doug K

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Re: She's confused and puzzled!
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 03:36:00 pm »
I've learned something about Agte, & the core Leadership of this Stop the Canal Corp Group, who believe they are "experts" yet fail to even grasp the simplest concept at play here regarding the problem or the project...

The Stop the Clear Cut Leadership (and many of their followers) universally FAIL to even grasp how stupid they look criticizing the ACTUAL professional heavy equipment operators, employed by these two Construction companies, to make the repairs on the Embankment Dams, a task they have all performed in the past and understand exactly what they are doing and why.

No one in the STCC Leadership Team is qualified to run this equipment, yet they like to weigh in with their idea of what constitutes doing the job right or wrong.

None of the Leadership has actually admitted these Embankments are Earthen Dams, still clinging to the "levee lie" they try to con others into believing.

Few if any of the STCC group will ever spend time educating themselves on the Science behind the EERP work process, as they value their own opinions over actual facts, rules, and guideline regulations.

None of these folks have ever added ANY value to the EERP Project, or to their communities, in their blind fight against Safety.

Anyone who would join this group, support this group, or even give Ms Agte and crew the time of day is WRONG. First for thinking personal opinion matters more than public safety, and secondly, for NOT standing behind and fighting for the the TRUTH when those ignoring and twisting it are doing it so flagrantly.

Sadly those same people do not realize they are fighting to KEEP an unsafe Canal in our communities by agreeing with this Stop the Clear Cut fiasco.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 05:12:01 am by Michael Caswell »

Michael Caswell

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Re: She's confused and puzzled!
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2018, 09:44:04 am »
Maybe Ms Agte should understand the process BEFORE she critiques it?

Reason for the deep hole is to get to all roots 1" or less out, the term is Embankment Grubbing. It's a churn of the earth below a root ball to retrieve those 1" roots. Those roots are getting hauled away while new patch earth is hauled back by track driven haulers.

The repaired areas are all tamped to an Engineered Spec, tested with a Newton Meter, and then covered with a hay thatch blanket.

That surface most see AFTER a repair is made is actually  the MIDDLE of the repair, another 18"-24" of topsoil is going to be added to the repaired surface (as needed) to regain that 3:1 OUTBOARD slope ratio...if possible & practical based on NYCC property and adjoining private homeowners lots.

The Canal Corporation will be leaving a flat surface below the Toe of Slope to add the Evergreen Tree plantings once the grass takes hold, and after the Arborist hired by NY Power Authority talks with those homeowners who qualify for the barrier additions.

After all the work is done on a given Erie Canal Trail Section, the Construction Company is using a bulldozer to clean and flatten the ECT for walkers that can start reusing the trailway once the construction team moves on.

A very efficient, very professional and very "lean" improvement process that is restoring the Erie Canal Embankments to a safe & sustainable asset for NY State. And also something the folks in the STCC will still criticize out of plain old "ignorance"... their choice.

By DK

« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 12:44:02 pm by Doug K »

Doug K

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Re: She's confused and puzzled!
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2018, 11:20:51 am »
I've heard on a recent Earthen Embankment Remediation Project Project Tour in Brockport, that Ms Agte seemed very focused on the actual "type" of clay being used for the patch repair of a recent stump that was removed. She asked her NY Canal Corp Tour Guides if "Kaolin Clay" being used for this repair work repeatedly, and was told by the Project Engineer's it was simply "clay".

Made me a little curious as to why anyone would ask the experts about a specific type of Clay being used, especially the Leader of a Group dedicated to stopping the Earthen Embankment Remediation Project. Either she had researched the most suitable clay type for these repairs and was looking to insure it was being used OR she was attempting to look like she knew as much or more about the project than those who were actually tasked with making the repair process happen or selecting the materials needed for the repair.

Inquiring minds want to know... so here's some truth on the Type of Clay being used for the EERP repairs when a stump is removed.

First.. the clay soil mixture is NOT the type Ms.Agte mentioned while she made her video... that is not even close. So once again another attempt by this group to look like the "experts" in front of the "actual" experts.



Now I did find four nice documents while searching for "Earthen Dam Clay" that are pretty good reads on how important the clay mixture is for this type repair. One of these documents is actually a guideline being used by the Canal Corporation and mentioned often in their public meetings. All have the word "clay" used prolifically throughout the document as these deal with Design, materials, and repair of Earthen Dams.

Go take a look, and search the word Kaolin... nada... zero returns on a keyword search

USACE Embankment Slope Stability - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Q2x7LZX_Ep9EnlqHt8CaN52ZiZjZZyss

US Society of Dams Embankment Dam Materials - https://drive.google.com/open?id=17ua0QEyKPFqUaXs31PRJN1OpGz9zvY-F

US Dept of Interior Embankment Dam Design - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nOIzzNOs4gHArXIvjxohAetliIWNxJ0C

Small Earthen Dam Manual (Italy) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HQhzm4wqsdN1A9qjxPErfFKNBML2MS5j

Now go search the word "clay" and see how science plays a role in this EERP project, right down to the materials selected for repairs.

I've been close enough to the repair process myself to see this is not your "ordinary clay" used in the backyard horseshoe pit. This is a fine mixture of different materials that flows smoothly when dumped into the repaired hole and compacts very hard when tamped as part of the repair process. It's covered with a straw-filled thatch mat and the Project Engineer indicated that many more yards of blown straw & topsoil will be added, contoured & compressed before the hydro-seeding is done and straw topcoat applied to help grass growth.

Not sure how anyone can get Health & Beauty Clay mixed up with Embankment Dam Repair Clay... that question will remain a mystery I guess.

Michael Caswell

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Re: She's confused and puzzled!
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 02:30:53 pm »
Kaolin is used for mild-to-moderate diarrhea, severe diarrhea, and there is plenty of that around the STCC - verbal diarrhea!

Doug K

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Re: She's confused and puzzled! Clay Mystery Solved!!
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2019, 03:32:03 pm »
Well here you go folks..  the answer to the Clay Question... and the Kaolin Clay Mystery

The EERP Project Engineer for the Erie Canal said "Clay" as a generic term for any mix of soil that is a MAJORITY of clay. If anyone read the linked manuals in this thread, there was a section in the US Army Corp Manual that covered this basic Embankment Dam Material.

It seems "clay" is actually a mix of three soils, predominately clay and then sand added as well as a tiny gravel mix... These are churned to a texture that allows the "clay" to be handled in dump trucks and poured into place. So the term is clay but it's a very carefully concocted mix that is used for the specific task of Embankment Dam Remediation.

This picture shows the clay in it's delivered state to the repaired root ball hole when it is fluffy and then after it has been properly compacted to the recommended force specification for this type of repair. I pressed with my boot and could only put a slight imprint into it..very hard.



After that the patched dam section is covered with a straw thatch mat, ready for an 18" layer of topsoil and hydro-seed scheduled for March-April 2019. That topsoil is for the reshaping the the Embankments to the correct slope angles.

Then grass grows..and evergreens start to get planted along the base. It will start looking like a safe,proper Embankment Dam again.

Folks, the clay being used for the EERP repairs is definitely not Kaolin Clay that is used to make this...