And still the STCC, who continues fighting this safety project, simply IGNORES Embankment Dam Rules, Regulations and SCIENCE and believes they can simply "distort" the Facts, chose their own "terminology" and deflect all criticism from anyone who wants to talk about Safety... or Embankment Dams

Take  look..

Once again it's Deceit, Deception & LOTS of DISINFORMATION from the STCC Leadership in an endless pursuit to try and justify their own existence. But you came to the RIGHT spot for the truth, folks, the Erie Canal Neighbors Association Forum where we continue to act as "Mythbusters"

Let's take claim #1 - No Emergency Plan while the Earthen Embankment Remediation Project (EERP) is ongoing

This is directly from the Canal Corp Website, who has ALWAYS had an Emergency Plan and provided Emergency Contact Information


Not to mention that the NY Canal Corporation has shared their Operations Emergency Number with the ECNA and has been posted here throughout the EERP Project. It really isn't that hard to see the issue here.. a group dedicated to perpetuating their own lies & myths.

1-866-691-8282 Erie Canal Emergency Reporting

Claim #2 - The NY Canal Corporation hasn't "done this before" and is somewhat "inept" at fixing Embankment Dams.

Well we all know these Embankment Dams have gone along with little to no maintenance for many years, that is why the EERP project was created. In their foresight the NY Canal Corp also selected a few Engineering Firms like Rizzo Engineeering and Ravi Consultants to act as their eyes & ears on the Project. The NY Canal Corp and NYPA are taking direction from a group of Engineers who have done this before.. and it shows in how smoothly the EERP Phase 2 work is progreessing on the Westside. To think the Embankment Remediation work is being done by "novices" is simply a LIE that the Stop The Clear Cut Group is trying to perpetuate.

Couple that with the fact that the NYCC, under direction of their Professional Engineering crew, hired TWO independent Construction Companies to do the actual Embankment Remediation work. They have also done this type of work before, and it shows in their "final product" that is fully documented on this ECNA website.

Take a look at the before and after of this section... looks pretty DAM professional to the ECNA and all who see it. Keep in mind the area shown is not complete, it will get another 18" of Earthen Layers and then the final approved covering.. Grass.


The Canal Corporation has, and always will have, the SAFETY of the Public at the forefront of all their operations & maintenance... period

The Stop the Clear Cut will always have their own selfish rhetoric at the forefront of their activity, choosing to look the other way on Safety

Sadly, never the two shall meet.

Just a final word on WHY all this work is being done along the Erie Canal, for those having trouble grasping the concept;

It's not a natural streambank, it's not the bank of a river, it's not even a levee or hillside slope. It is as Earthen Embankment Dam. Just ask any expert who has taken a look at this, even an expert sought out by those trying to STOP this project has agreed about that "simple" truth folks. Seems the truth still stands, even when so many chose to lie or ignore it.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/notices-from-the-canal-authority/check-the-ecna-forum-for-important-information-on-december-8-134/

Earthen Embankment Remediation Project is the BEST name that the NY Canal Corporation & NY Power Authority could have chosen for this work, EERP is exactly what is being done to SAVE the Erie Canal from it's slow, self destruction.

I've learned something about Agte, & the core Leadership of this Stop the Canal Corp Group, who believe they are "experts" yet fail to even grasp the simplest concept at play here regarding the problem or the project...

The Stop the Clear Cut Leadership (and many of their followers) universally FAIL to even grasp how stupid they look criticizing the ACTUAL professional heavy equipment operators, employed by these two Construction companies, to make the repairs on the Embankment Dams, a task they have all performed in the past and understand exactly what they are doing and why.

No one in the STCC Leadership Team is qualified to run this equipment, yet they like to weigh in with their idea of what constitutes doing the job right or wrong.

None of the Leadership has actually admitted these Embankments are Earthen Dams, still clinging to the "levee lie" they try to con others into believing.

Few if any of the STCC group will ever spend time educating themselves on the Science behind the EERP work process, as they value their own opinions over actual facts, rules, and guideline regulations.

None of these folks have ever added ANY value to the EERP Project, or to their communities, in their blind fight against Safety.

Anyone who would join this group, support this group, or even give Ms Agte and crew the time of day is WRONG. First for thinking personal opinion matters more than public safety, and secondly, for NOT standing behind and fighting for the the TRUTH when those ignoring and twisting it are doing it so flagrantly.

Sadly those same people do not realize they are fighting to KEEP an unsafe Canal in our communities by agreeing with this Stop the Clear Cut fiasco.

I've heard on a recent Earthen Embankment Remediation Project Project Tour in Brockport, that Ms Agte seemed very focused on the actual "type" of clay being used for the patch repair of a recent stump that was removed. She asked her NY Canal Corp Tour Guides if "Kaolin Clay" being used for this repair work repeatedly, and was told by the Project Engineer's it was simply "clay".

Made me a little curious as to why anyone would ask the experts about a specific type of Clay being used, especially the Leader of a Group dedicated to stopping the Earthen Embankment Remediation Project. Either she had researched the most suitable clay type for these repairs and was looking to insure it was being used OR she was attempting to look like she knew as much or more about the project than those who were actually tasked with making the repair process happen or selecting the materials needed for the repair.

Inquiring minds want to know... so here's some truth on the Type of Clay being used for the EERP repairs when a stump is removed.

First.. the clay soil mixture is NOT the type Ms.Agte mentioned while she made her video... that is not even close. So once again another attempt by this group to look like the "experts" in front of the "actual" experts.



Now I did find four nice documents while searching for "Earthen Dam Clay" that are pretty good reads on how important the clay mixture is for this type repair. One of these documents is actually a guideline being used by the Canal Corporation and mentioned often in their public meetings. All have the word "clay" used prolifically throughout the document as these deal with Design, materials, and repair of Earthen Dams.

Go take a look, and search the word Kaolin... nada... zero returns on a keyword search

USACE Embankment Slope Stability - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Q2x7LZX_Ep9EnlqHt8CaN52ZiZjZZyss

US Society of Dams Embankment Dam Materials - https://drive.google.com/open?id=17ua0QEyKPFqUaXs31PRJN1OpGz9zvY-F

US Dept of Interior Embankment Dam Design - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nOIzzNOs4gHArXIvjxohAetliIWNxJ0C

Small Earthen Dam Manual (Italy) - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HQhzm4wqsdN1A9qjxPErfFKNBML2MS5j

Now go search the word "clay" and see how science plays a role in this EERP project, right down to the materials selected for repairs.

I've been close enough to the repair process myself to see this is not your "ordinary clay" used in the backyard horseshoe pit. This is a fine mixture of different materials that flows smoothly when dumped into the repaired hole and compacts very hard when tamped as part of the repair process. It's covered with a straw-filled thatch mat and the Project Engineer indicated that many more yards of blown straw & topsoil will be added, contoured & compressed before the hydro-seeding is done and straw topcoat applied to help grass growth.

Not sure how anyone can get Health & Beauty Clay mixed up with Embankment Dam Repair Clay... that question will remain a mystery I guess.

Well here you go folks..  the answer to the Clay Question... and the Kaolin Clay Mystery

The EERP Project Engineer for the Erie Canal said "Clay" as a generic term for any mix of soil that is a MAJORITY of clay. If anyone read the linked manuals in this thread, there was a section in the US Army Corp Manual that covered this basic Embankment Dam Material.

It seems "clay" is actually a mix of three soils, predominately clay and then sand added as well as a tiny gravel mix... These are churned to a texture that allows the "clay" to be handled in dump trucks and poured into place. So the term is clay but it's a very carefully concocted mix that is used for the specific task of Embankment Dam Remediation.

This picture shows the clay in it's delivered state to the repaired root ball hole when it is fluffy and then after it has been properly compacted to the recommended force specification for this type of repair. I pressed with my boot and could only put a slight imprint into it..very hard.



After that the patched dam section is covered with a straw thatch mat, ready for an 18" layer of topsoil and hydro-seed scheduled for March-April 2019. That topsoil is for the reshaping the the Embankments to the correct slope angles.

Then grass grows..and evergreens start to get planted along the base. It will start looking like a safe,proper Embankment Dam again.

Folks, the clay being used for the EERP repairs is definitely not Kaolin Clay that is used to make this...

I'm surprised that you did not post the entire message that was recently sent out to the STCC "warriors" from Ms. Agte, the self-pronounced leader of the STCC group who is fighting against safety initiatives in the guise of "helping Nature".

If you read the complete message, you get a sense of how biased the group really is, and also how they seem to be worried more about their own "appearance" than about the actual safety of their community and the sad state of the Erie Canal. Sadly there are MANY folks in our community who are letting this dangerous STCC group (and it's leadership) speak for them on the topic of Erie Canal safety. This is a group that has shown over and over how much they fail to grasp the simplest concepts of what is going on with this NY Canal Corporation Embankment Restoration Project.

As for my view on the STCC, I'm not sure why Ms. Agte feels her "hunches" on this Erie Canal Restoration project should matter more than the actual homeowners who are living along the unsafe embankments. Our voices are being drowned out by her dangerous rhetoric it seems.   

Let's let the PUBLIC have a look at what the STCC is saying these days, on their "private" Facebook group page these days:

Here is the STCC's recent post in it's "private" Facebook group" regarding this very "public" project. Please note the bias Ms. Agte is already showing for the Landscaping Firm already selected by the NY canal Corp  for the Phase 3 Evergreen Barrier Replanting Design. You would think she would welcome someone who will be setting the plan for future planting of trees, trees that are actually allowed on Embankment Dams. But that would mean common sense was being applied... just wishful thinking when you talk about the STCC.


January 24 at 11:44 PM
Elizabeth R. Agte
Admin safety

Some updates:
We urged the CC to post trail closures at our December 7th meeting, and it took several weeks. But they have not updated the closures to now include Holley. From your pictures, I would guess that canal path is not walkable...I want to give a shout out to Julie Mellen Damerell who stepped up and reported the current status of canal embankment work at the Brighton Town Board Meeting last night. Or as she referred to it.. her "dramatic reading". That totally **** me up. Thanks so much Julie. A forward thanks to Karen Anvelt who has volunteered to be present at the February Pittsford meeting. I sent a letter to the editor of the D&C, we will see if they print it.

We are still dealing with some disturbing troll activity. Every time I get a PM from one of you about it, I want you to know I drop what I am doing to try to get to the bottom of it as soon as possible. No one likes to feel like they are being stalked. I'm still doing some research so I won't go into details right now, but I want you all to bear in mind: trolls are bottom feeders. They have no original content of their own, so they have to steal in order to be relevant.

We have a group of savvy internet warriors, but I will repeat.. do not post anything on our page, even through it is "private" that is personal. No emails, phone numbers etc. Those of you who contact me, and relay private messages from trolls, just remember, anyone can PM you, but you can block them. Thank you to those of you who have sent me the PM's for documentation. I'm sorry for those of you who have had to deal with this low life. But feel free to continue to contact me. It's not how any of us want to spend our free time, but trolls have no boundaries.

Stay tuned for information about the February meeting that the CC has promised about remediation for the westside. I'm highly skeptical of the choices they will make for the arborist and landscape architect, because they have jobbed the hiring of those positions out to a consulting firm, several degrees of separation... Hopefully my intuition is wrong.

You may notice a change in our member count, Facebook is reconfiguring their group attendance numbers. It might be a Russian thing, but they are combing through groups to see who participates or not. Sometimes friends join friends in groups they have no desire to be in, sometimes it's a bot, or a Russian or a troll. (I know I am not the only one who has like a hundred guys who want to be my boyfriend on Facebook these days.)

Tonight as we walked along the canal, we stopped and waited, because eight deer were gingerly making their way over soft ice across the canal. I hooked my dog back up, because I knew if he rushed them, and they galloped, they might break the ice after a few days of warm. (I know, I know, deer don't gallop.. what do they do??) But anyway, we waited...from quite a distance.... until even the straggler caught up to the rest and leaped the stones to dry ground.

As always, thanks to all of you who stay vigilant. We are battling for trees, transparency, safety and honesty.
We don't have to live in an ugly world in order to be "safe".

Maybe this last statement is the most humorous...

As always, thanks to all of you who stay vigilant. We are battling for trees, transparency, safety and honesty. We don't have to live in an ugly world in order to be "safe".

Folks, this last statement is coming from a group who has continually ignored the damage done by the trees to the earthen dams those trees reside on, from a group who's own LACK of transparency caused them to take that group from public to private, from a group who ignores the word safety at all costs...even placing it in quotes as if it's debatable in the last sentence to their waning Facebook membership.

There are documented reports of Unsafe Erie Canal Embankments on file with the NY Dept of Environmental Conservation and a series of 40 recent embankment inspections where all but a very few sections received failing grades. Still the STCC does NOT even think safety is an issue, stating over and over their tired philosophy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".. even with monumental evidence that says the Erie Canal Embankments ARE broken.

This group has done nothing positive to help the Erie Canal safety issue and simply calls everyone who fails to accept their "fake" truth a liar, in some way or another.

To date the STCC has not produced one shred of evidence to back their distorted view of this Erie Canal Restoration Project and their mantra that "Trees on Dams are OK". Every attempt made by this group to con hydrology experts to their side, has resulted in each of those experts recanting statements & removing their support for the STCC group. Check our ECNA Forum for more detail on STCC's "expert testimony" and how that group purposely hid the truth from their own experts. Once these experts saw pictures of the Embankments, they ALL agreed these are Earthen Dams that are being restored... and it was absolutely necessary to do that work per all known science & regulations

As for honesty; the STCC group won't even call the Erie Canal Embankments by their proper terminology as Earthen Dams. They have no idea what the word honesty means and never will. They have their own brand of truth, that is led by the whims of a group dedicated to resist change at all cost. They have freely admitted that calling the Erie Canal Slopes by their real name, Dams, would mean the embankments would need to be cleared and only have grass covering. They do understand the rules, but seem determined on not allowing the NY Canal Corporation to properly apply them to these Earthen Embankment Dams... because they believe "scenery is MORE important than safety."

Sadly the world is really made that much more ugly by this group's unwillingness to accept the truth. It's a shame that the STCC continues in it's decision to let the lies & ignorance of it's leadership cast a shadow of doubt on one of the biggest safety projects running through New York State. The Erie Canal has finally reached a point where it has become unsafe and this STCC group keeps stating it's not broken, nothing wrong, stay away.

Nothing could be further from the truth folks...

It appears Ms Agte is frustrated by the truth, and also those who are reporting it like the ECNA. Her refusal to see that same truth has now resulted in more lies to cover dwindling support on Facebook. Ms Agte has now stated that Facebook itself will be changing the Stop The Clear Cut group's member count, somehow trying to link that to Russia and current Facebook issues, which is a joke. She whines about trolls, who are actually people stating the truth. And now is making up more lies to cover-up the simple fact that the STCC is a sinking ship, as you stated.

The truth is simple, this Facebook group has little to no participation from it's membership, but they STILL see their "private" statements showing up in the public sphere, even AFTER taking their Facebook group site private to try and prevent that from happening. The only remaining choice for the STCC is to start eliminating it's own membership hoping to find the source of their Facebook group "leak". They feel they have a mole in their midst when sadly it has become apparent that the majority of folks who initially joined the Stop the Clear Cut Group have listened to BOTH sides now, and see the STCC has not been forthright or honest. And now those "STCC moles" are pointing that out to those who will listen, hoping to shed some  light on the dishonesty of the STCC Leadership.

Here's a simple fact; Claiming to have 600 supporters, the STCC Group routinely has only 1% of that number who actively post to their STCC site, and the majority of those FB posts are from a small leadership group led by Ms Agte and two "neighbors". For this trio of leaders it's never been about safety... it's always been about their self-centered, self-serving view of the Erie Canal.

None of these STCC "leaders" live along the Canal Embankments being repaired,  none are in danger of flooding from unsafe dams, and not one of them worries about the need to buy National Flood Insurance if the Embankment Dams go unrepaired. For them it's only about how their "walk" will be affected without trees along the Erie Canal Trail.

As for Ms Agte, she rarely, if ever, walks the actual Erie Canal Trail as she  lives on the opposite side of the Trail Embankment, choosing instead to walk the 2 mile Oxbow Trail located on the east side of the Oxbow Lake... part of NY Parks & Trails recently adopted & maintained by the Erie Canal Neighbor's Association.

Yes, the ECNA is working to improve the Erie Canal Trail system, not allowing it to fall into more disrepair as the STCC would promote.

And that folks is the real truth.

If you can answer that one, PLEASE respond with a comments and tell us why...

CRICKETS!  I hear CRICKETS!