Author Topic: STCC unhappy with Fairport Nextdoor post regarding National Dam Safety Laws  (Read 132 times)

Doug K

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The STCC Opposition Board is BACK!!! Why would the ECNA ever take down this Stop the Canal ClearCut Board? It provides so many with education & entertainment, just would not be fair to our loyal readers, our members and the 100s of guests that visit this site weekly.

Folks, once again it's more of the same from the STCC group. This time crying foul on the Nextdoor website for Fairport... and Mike Caswell

Now it's because the ECNA has pointed out that fighting against the Erie Canal Dam repairs is the same as fighting against the Laws of the United States... after all there are LAWS that were put in place to protect the public from unsafe, improperly maintained Embankments like these along the Erie Canal. In the end the NY Canal Corporation has to follow those laws, and also do the right thing when it comes to safety.

The Canal Corporation does NOT have the option to "go with their gut" or "follow a feeling" like the STCC, and those fighting against Erie Canal Dam repair, seem to rely on when talking about Canal Embankment Safety. They are bound by NY State ETHICS to do what's best for public safety along Erie Canal and for the residence & neighbors that live along it's Embankment Dams


Take a look at the latest from Ms. Agte... creator, owner & leader of the Stop the Canal ClearCut Facebook Group, who's mission is to insure the Federal Laws regarding Dam safety are not applied to the Erie Canal (if she and her group of friends can help it)... very disturbing.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 10:56:04 am by Doug K »

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Doug K

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Once again, you can't make this stuff up...

So much for caring about public "safety" in Fairport as Ms Agte and the Stop the Canal Clearcut group have pulled the proverbial "wool" over everyone's eyes, from neighbors on Nextdoor, to public officials and the people of the Towns of Pittsford, Brighton, Perinton and ESPECIALLY the resident of the Village of Fairport. It's hard to believe that anyone would NOT see the safety aspect of unsafe Dam Repair.

But to think that you can fight AGAINST this country's Federal Dam Safety Laws only shows how far off in the "weeds" this STCC group is.

Submitted for your review and further discussion:




Wake up Fairport, your LIVES may depend on it...

« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 10:48:29 am by Doug K »

Michael Caswell

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Chris Morgan posted to the STCC Facebook page the following.



SO, I posted this via PM to Chris.


Chris Morgan

Saw your post on Facebook on the STCC site.

You said -
He is only making himself look like a fool, because the Canal is not a dam. I thought we covered this a long time ago and already moved on.

Besides the jibe at me (funny), I'd love to know your thoughts on why the Canal is not a dam. Did you mean the main channel, or are you specifically referring to the raised embankments?

I welcome you to discuss this and offer your point of view either in a response to this message, or to go to our forum and make a post there please. We'd like to understand the STCC point here.

https://ecna.createaforum.com/index.php


Did you actually read this?

See THE NATIONAL DAM SAFETY ACT OF 2006 (Public Law 109-460) & 2014
(Title III, Subtitle A of the Conference Report to HR 3080, the Water Resources Reform and Development Act)

Here's a copy of the text of that Law
https://damsafety.org/sites/default/files/National%20Dam%20Safety%20Program%20Background-2014.pdf

This document first spells out by definition, what a DAM is and is not.

And here is the STCC Expert witness in the SEQR court case comments on the subject.

https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/testimony-in-question-vegetation-on-dams/


Look forward to talking with you.

Mike Caswell
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 05:26:06 am by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Wait...Mr. Morgan says Dams don't exist on the Erie Canal because "we already covered this"? Who is we?

The Canal Corporation, they manage the Erie Canal, has ALREADY stated there are Unsafe Dams along the Erie Canal and they have to repair them... they have that information from recent Dam Inspections.

Both the NY Power Authority & Rizzo Engineering have stated that INSPECTION of Erie Canal Embankment has shown that all embankments along the Erie Canal are UNSAFE DAMS are in need of immediate repairs to fix long standing integrity & inspection issues.

The Federal Government has stated that any earthen embankment that is taller than 25 feet or holds back a volume of water that could flood 50 acres with a foot of water QUALIFIES to be called a Dam and falls under Dam Safety Laws of our country.

Even Ms. Elizabeth Agte and her cronies on the STCC, have stated (when viewing pictures of Erie Canal work in western Monroe county) that what they see in the "after pictures" of embankment restoration "Looks like they are Dams".

And so who is Mr.Morgan to contest what qualifies as a Dam?

Does he have a degree in Hydrology Science?

Is he a Dam Design & Contruction Engineer?

Has he performed 100s of Embankment Inspections to be able to make such a casual statement about what qualifies as a Dam?

No, It appears that Mr. Morgan, like every other follower of the STCC playbook, has been TOLD what to say by Agte, Maier, Miller & Gouldthorpe. Mr. Morgan may actually be one of those rare folks in the STCC that think because they walk on the top crest of the Dam, they are some kind of citizen-scientist, and also experts on Dam Technology.

It appears that Mr. Morgan has just shown that he doesn't do his own thinking, he takes the STCC "party line" and his use of the word "we"  means him & the STCC Leadership. They are the ONLY people who still to this day, cannot say the word Dam, it's been "outlawed" by Ginny Maier already  on Facebook.

Sadly, no matter how much information is made available to those like Mr. Morgan, or how many facts could show them the truth about WHY these embankments qualify as dams, this group of "blind" followers of the STCC refuses to even consider they may have made a mistake in judgement. They all decided willingly to let Ms. Agte and Crew do their thinking for them, and now they find themselves "stuck between at tree & a dam"... little humor there.

Mr. Morgan, and many other STCC followers, have been left with no way to "save face", unless they admit they may have been wrong about this one simple truth...

The Erie Canal was created by linking many raised Embankment Dams together, along with rivers, ditches and concrete structures to create one of the longest Canal systems in the world.

You think that would be an easy thing to see with so many in Mr. Morgan's town who are looking UPWARD at the Erie Canal some 40 to 50 feet overhead.

What's that term used for people like the STTC, who can't see the truth? Oh yea.. "They don't know what they don't know"


To be honest, when it comes to the safety of me, my wife, and my neighbors in Brockport, I think I will "pass" on the "opinions" of Mr. Morgan. Seems he still can't quite figure out what is under all the trees along these Erie Canal Embankment Dams.

Folks it just might be better to listen to the Federal Government & NYPA who have enlisted the help of PROFESSIONALS on this Dam Safety Program. Might be better this time to listen to the NY Canal Corporation who has the job of managing safety along a 500+ mile waterway system. It might be better to listen to the latest failed Erie Canal Dam INSPECTION reports that tell us these are in fact raised earthen embankment dams.

Honestly, comments from a rank amateur, who's opinion was formed by a group like the STCC (with zero interest in public safety) seems to be something that most would take with "a grain of salt"... if anyone even listened at all.

I'm happy to say that I've learned to never follow the advice of a fool, so I'll "pass" on Mr. Morgan's definition of dams...thank you just the same.

Sadly it's been tainted with the same STCC Lie and one day soon Mr. Morgan will learn that he has been played for a "fool" like all those that followed the STCC's brand of Erie Canal "truth".


« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 11:35:50 am by Doug K »

Doug K

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I'm just curious Mr. Caswell...can you clarify something for me about your Nextdoor post

Does Mr. Morgan fall into one of these three classifications that the many residents of the "fair" town & village of "Perin-Port" seem to be following these days?

1) Is he one of those folks who are living WELL above the canal waterline and will never be in any peril from a dam breach on the Erie Canal, like Ms. Agte and the rest of the Stop the Canal ClearCut Leadership?

These folks can be often seen walking on the TOP of the Dam along the Erie Canal Trailway for their morning "constitutional" walk. They also don't believe there is any safety concern on the embankment dams.. the trail holds them up for their walk just fine... and trees are nice.

2) Or is Mr. Morgan one of those folks living in the west & north sections of PerinPort, usually below an Erie Canal Embankment Dam, and dead center in the Flood Inundation Zone, who are still to this day, unaware of the Flood Hazard looming around them?

These people normally have strong legs & crooked necks from walking UPHILL to get to the TOP of the Dams to walk that same Erie Canal Trail. And those who are living adjacent to the actual dams themselves, well they have to look up at a 45į angle to see the ECT. The look out their back windows and see a "hill with trees". Won't they be surprised when their dam is uncovered... and it looks like this.



3) I'll ask but I can't imagine Mr. Morgan is from the very small group of people that is supporting the safety along the Erie Canal, by supporting the Canal Corporation in it's efforts to repair the dams. From what I can see that's not the "popular group" around PerinPort these days. Seems the only member out there is named Mike Caswell from the looks of Nextdoor

It's easy to tell who these people are, they say fix the Dam Safety problem please... and thank you for caring enough to save our lives. They listen to reason, the learn the facts and respect the Truth and the Law regarding Dam Safety in America

And to the rest of you folks in the PerinPort area reading this posting... which one are YOU?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 10:48:40 am by Doug K »

Michael Caswell

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The STCC have actually done me a favor.  I figured out that I can comply with their 'rules' and post as much as I want, as often as I want, to a 'group', but not so if i post it to the general board. However, the ECNA NDboard is not available to all, only my SW Fairport, it seems.

I have decided to make a weekly 'digest' of all the headings of the posts I make to the ECNA ND group board, and then post that to the general board, along with the links to the ECNA forum, and everybody will be reasonably happy.
The great thing about this is it gives me a chance to plug the ECNA forum, the Erie canal Facts page and my little Oxbow Blog page.
We should see a big jump in readers later today! :D

And maybe, the few idiots who tried to shut me up regarding the Town Supervisors lack of compliance with the law will realise that little ploy didn't work!

« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 05:49:35 pm by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Mike, Great idea...but ECNA Readership has always been pretty good




Michael Caswell

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I'm still amazed that Ms Agte has left her post up on Facebook where she says, "But now he is suggesting that our civic-minded group (exercising our right to demand that state agencies go through proper legal environmental channel) is breaking the law. (Along with our town supervisors.) This post is in direct opposition to the entire mission of the Next Door app. and absolutely violates their guidelines. I have reported him to the site admin. I would strongly suggest that any member of this group who has stood tall and proud for the civilized dialog we have had on this page also report him for this post....

I go back and read it occasionally, just for the laugh.

"Our civic-minded group" she spouts.  Civic minded? This radical, dangerous group are advocating that people living under the threat of flood oppose the repair of a well documented dangerous class 3, High Hazard dam, while they live high and dry several blocks away from the problems.

They are civic minded enough to conjure up a 'technicality' to delay this long overdue renovation of a dreadfully dilapidated structure, the canal.
They are civic minded enough get gullible town supervisors to spend tax payers dollars (about $40,000) to bring about a frivolous delaying court injunction, which has since been confirmed by NYDEC as being incorrect.
They are civic minded enough to ignore the very subject I posted about, which was a Federal law that spells out what a dam is and isn't and how to treat it.
They are civic minded enough to lie to two expert witnesses to get them to make statements about trees on levees and natural forested slopes, when they know full well these are earthen dams as defined by numerous government departments (USACE FEMA etc) Thankfully, these witnesses have recanted their statements.

One vocal member Virginia Maier, is advertising on the STCC Facebook page for 'scientists' to collaborate their dangerous agenda.
Here's her post -
Virginia Borden Maier   March 16 at 7:46 AM

"Are you a scientist, like to read and think about science, or know someone who does? I'm looking for volunteers to review the literature I've collected around the question of "Are trees really a risk to the embankments of the Erie Canal?"

She provides a link to their 'Reference Material' page  https://sites.google.com/view/eriecanalclearcutting/scientific-references
"Congress required the Army Corps of Engineers to update their LEVEE vegetation management policy----"

So much of the literature is pointed towards LEVEES, which has absolutely nothing to do with DAMS. They try desperately to confuse their 'followers' with this. You will not find any documents here which state trees are good for DAMS.

Maier has not listened to one word her own 'expert witnesses' have repeatedly told her regarding the difference between a DAM and a LEVEE.
Dr Donald Gray spelt it out and David Rosgen confirmed the differences, yet she continues in this ridiculous quest for someone to back up her flawed belief that trees are ok on dams.

Despite all the evidence from so many scientists, especially the two that the STCC 'engaged' as experts and who recanted their original statements, they continue to try to justify their position about trees. If only they could find one 'scientist' who would agree with them. But, it seems there is no one else in the world who is stupid enough to back this lame horse. This post slaps of desperation from the STCC.

Just for the record, here is the explanation from Dr Gray  https://eriecanalfacts.wordpress.com/2018/04/19/testimony-in-question-vegetation-on-dams/

He says, "I donít know of any earth dams where woody vegetation was purposely planted or allowed to grow on a face of the dam.  Such is not the case with earthen levees where vegetation can often be found growing on both the landward and water sides."
I don't know how many more times we have to tell the STCC about the difference between a LEVEE and a DAM.

As for Nextdoor, their Mission Statement says "Our mission is to provide a trusted platform where neighbors work together to build stronger, safer, happier communities," But when it comes down to it, and the lives of hundreds of people are potentially put at risk, this organisation is more concerned with being nice, probably because this is a company whose revenue comes from advertising, and unpleasantries like 'drowning' aren't good for business.

In May 2017, the company offered its services to the Federal Emergency Management Agency to facilitate the delivery of geo-targeted "emergency and disaster preparedness" alerts through the platform. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nextdoor)  Yet, when posts regarding emergency situations on Dams (that FEMA are deeply involved in) are mentioned, Nextdoor bows to opposition from a dangerous radical local group.

The relentless whining to Nextdoor every time I posted in an effort to shut me down, has only improved my method of using this avenue to make folks aware of the dangers of believing those who form this mis-informed, lying, dangerous group.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 03:39:49 am by Michael Caswell »