Author Topic: Stop the Canal Clear-Cut - Just Another Facebook Group with a Questionable Message  (Read 144 times)

Doug K

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion... but not their own facts or their own science.

It appears that this Facebook group is now being led by just another angry leader, who's idea to create a catchy shade slogan, didn't seem to rally her troops as expected.

She is now lashing out at any and all people that "clear forests", like this company, Finger Lakes Forestry. We highly suggest you go read all the comments people are making about this method of clearing thick invasive underbrush, almost 100% thumbs up.

None of the comments made agree with the view of this Stop Canal Cutting Facebook Group.





https://m.facebook.com/forestmulching/

What can be said... So much for those who think opposing PUBLIC SAFETY work along the Erie Canal, would fly with the general public and Erie Canal Neighbors living BELOW the danger.

Now the group appears to be led by just another disgruntled Facebook user.

One who thought creating a group to "champion the cause of trees", on what amounted to unsafe Canal Embankments, would make people ignore the HUGE public safety issue with uninspected, unmanaged & unmaintained earthen embankment dams along the oldest man-made waterway in America.

Failure to recognize the TREES were the problem was something that you just can't hide, even on Facebook.

Somehow someone thought that having the group form on Facebook, was supposed to hide the fact that the TREES on the embankments were the PROBLEM in the first place, and that hoards of concerned Rochester residents would think that Facebook would suddenly become the place to go for factual information.

That didn't happen either... because the FACTS are clear here, even if some chose to ignore them.

Fact: Trees Roots do NOT stabilize the Soil, they stabilize the TREE, and actually "destabilize" the ground around them eventually. That is a major reason why they tend to blow over in heavy wind storms, and carry all that loosened soil up with it. You have seen it, think it over... it is NOT always raining when trees topple.

Another FACT: Trees growing on Earthen hillsides are NOT the same as trees growing on the sides of Earthen Embankment Dams. It's pretty simple to see that one situation has only earth to consider, on the slope where trees live. The other one, the earthen embankment dam, well that has WATER on one side, which changes the entire situation drastically. One has to worry about hydraulic forces, phreatic lines, and BREACH prevention, the hillside... nothing.

These are FACTS, not the "valued opinions" or "myths' that some people chose to perpetuate about trees and where they are or should be planted.

If you want fiction, you can find PLENTY of it on Facebook, go to this group's page: https://m.facebook.com/groups/374651252977621/

« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 02:45:57 pm by Doug K »

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Doug K

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And for anyone out there that says they "want proof" of the claims we are making about this group, you need to only look at their latest attempt to deceive Rochester with their crazy rhetoric.

Of course they are now being enabled and aided by one of the groups members, who used her position at a local Radio Station to push an agenda that goes AGAINST public safety along the NYS Canal System. Shame on that radio station and it's owners for letting that happen, Rochester deserves better than to have radical idiots in charge of local airwave messages.



Go listen to this Shaking up Rochester rebroadcast link, it is almost comical, and worth the listen to see how "in the weeds" this group has become. Be sure to read Mr. Caswell's comments as you listen.


https://archive.org/details/shaking-up-rochester-stop-the-canal-clear-cut


The ECNA did call in to the program, our own Mr. Caswell tried to get the TRUTH out once again about Canal Embankment Safety, but was stifled by what can only be described as "cringe-worthy" remarks, made by the groups "loyal" minions. Take a look at the comments made by Mr. Caswell below.






And now, the responses from the members of this Facebook Group, who say they are looking out for the "public's best interest"





So now we should add the title "messenger's from God" to this Facebook group?

Hard to believe that so many people in our area are being sucked into this Stop the Canal Clear-cut "black hole", sadly thinking this bizarre behavior, and zealous group of "followers" is somehow right about Canal Embankment Safety.

I thought that Rochester was the hub of innovation and smart, forward-thinking people. What a shock and surprise to see that thought turn to crap.

It's very likely that "quite a few members" of this Facebook group also think that a group of Insurrectionist storming Washington DC on January 6 were just "patriots" trying to "serve THEIR LEADER as well.

Look where that move got them...

« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 11:16:10 am by Doug K »

Michael Caswell

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It was HILARIOUS!

So much fun! But quite predictable.  It took them a while to figure it out, then the 'religious' card was brought out. 
Desperate moves by desperate people!

 


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This makes no sense, so Jesus is now watching over the canal?

Can I ask why?

After all he didn't put it there, and he could have. So is it just his turn to be the canal monitor?

Why doesn't he fix the safety issues with the dams if it's his watch? For that matter, why doesn't he just stop it from leaking so much? After all, he's Jesus.

I've heard it said that desperate times call for desperate measures, must be one of those moments in time for this group, who's now being seen for what they are, and that's wrong once again.

Who used the word crazy? That is an understatement.


Doug K

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This was sent in by a member, thank you for your help.

Now it looks like this Facebook group has resorted to defacing public property, and creating even MORE work for local Frontier Field clean-up staff.

What else can be said, this is just wrong.

https://www.facebook.com/RocRedWings/




Michael Caswell

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It's quite entertaining really. Just look! --



Mr Smith and the STCC formulated new strategies?  Great!   We can all sleep well in our beds now folks! Especially if you live under the canal embankments.
That NASTY NYPA is acting with impunity you know!  BAD NYPA! BAD! BAD!
Worse, they dismantled the Canal Corporation! Dear Dear dear! Even worse, they're playing 'fast and loose' too!

I see Liz'beth is trying out a new STCC product -Tree Earrings!  That should be a winner folks. And who sent them? None other than our staunch STCC Supporter Janice Gouldthorpe!   Hey Janice! I thought you'd sold up and left for Southern climes? Not really right to be chiming in on 'canal topics' now you have no skin in the game, is it now!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 04:43:38 am by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Wait... I just have to answer, being on the "other side"...right?

Not a "partisan" issue?

Yes it is... I am an Erie Canal NEIGHBOR, who used to live BELOW an UNSAFE Earthen EMBANKMENT, it has been repaired now, despite the best efforts of this Facebook calamity to stop that safety work west of Rochester...smarter heads prevailed out here.

Do you think for 1 minute I'm going to let some Empire Trail user dictate what's SAFE for my family? Ms. Agte, Ms. Maier, Mr. Gallagher... they ride bikes on the top of the Earthen Dams... and they think that gives them the right to TOTALLY IGNORE the safety of those neighbors living below?

Not to mention all those living in Flood Inundation Zones and don't know the potential danger they may be in from a canal embankment breach.

Non-partisan... what a stupid thing to say.

NYPA playing "fast & loose", really?

This same Facebook group has been saying the work on EEIP and the Canal Corporation are dragging their feet on getting work done. They took 18 month to get the SEQR work done, the new Embankment Guidebook, and all those pages of Environmental study that this Stop the Clear-cut group asked for. If anything NYPA has been rolling along even-keeled, and is dotting their "i" and crossing all the "t" just to insure a group like this on Facebook never has footing again.

And WHEN did this become about "the economic well-being" of villages and towns. Suddenly it's NOT about clear-cutting and lumber, it's not about shade being "cool" and it's not about fear-mongering... now it's about MONEY? A public safety program, to clear off 100 year old earthen dams is now supposed to be stopped because of tourist money?

So what's the price Ms. Agte and her Facebook Group thinks is somehow worth keeping their community and Erie Canal neighbors  in harm's way?

$100 a head? $200? How much is a human life worth to one of these Stop the Canal Clear-cut nutbags? After all they seem to think that tree's lives matter more, don't they?

The OWNERS of the Colonial Belle are posting on the NYS Canal Corporation's Facebook Page, they LOVE the Canal, and those who maintain it. They have nothing but good things to say now that the Canal Corporation figured out a way to get them to Fairport. And their time in Newark area, well they turned a profit I'm sure. Go read their webpage about all the great reviews they got while running cruises there.

She don't seem to know what you are speaking about. Maybe Ms. Agte should check her sources BEFORE she opens mouth and "inserts foot" in the future.

Better yet, maybe she should simply start listening instead of talking out her arse.

Michael Caswell

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"Better yet, maybe she should simply start listening instead of talking out her arse."

She's just gassing!

« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 06:49:40 am by Michael Caswell »

Michael Caswell

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Desperate Times - desperate people!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 12:23:06 pm »
If ever anything showed how pitiful the STCC argument is, then this latest stunt surely shows they have no solid argument.

They have resorted to posting QR codes all over the place, to attract more folks to 'the cause'.

The code points to this web page  https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeROeNwzumRmCioLi1-xFksiFbJFNtB7dH7MJ4r1SA0xoqePg/viewform

The questions asked deserve a response from the ECNA.

I think trees and natural vegetation belong on the Erie Canal embankments because (check all that apply): *

The canal is unique historic treasure
.---* It is in a deplorable, neglected state, the history shows it was built by non-professionals over 150 years ago, and is not to accepted dam building codes.

I like how the natural vegetation enhances the ambiance of the canal port towns. ----* This 'natural vegetation is mainly honeysuckle, Swallowort, Bittersweet vines, Locust and worst of all HUGE Cottonwood trees. All regulated as illegal or controlled invasive species by NYDEC.

I love biking the tree shaded trails in the summer
.----* Much of the Perinton/Pittsford trail has no shade most of the time, as it runs north -south.

Natural vegetation supports wildlife.----* Wildlife is not desirable on an earthen embankment dam, especially burrowing animals and deer, whose hooves create path ruts in the embankment.

Natural vegetation helps to fight global warming. ----* True, but the amount on these dams is TOTALLY insignificant.
 
I like seeing pollinators on all the flowers. -----* Grow flowers in your garden, the bees will pollinate the grasses  -Turfgrass blended with low-growing perennials that bloom after mowing are a foraging delight to local bee populations.

Trees and shrubs make boating down the canal so relaxing.  -----* Desperate idea.

The natural vegetation makes the canal a great place to photograph sunsets. ----* The sunsets would be far more spectacular without the trees on the western side of the canal, especially at The Oxbow.

The natural vegetation makes it a nice place to go fishing.  ----* We thought the fish were in the canal, not on the embankment.

If we missed something important, tell us another reason you value trees on the Erie Canal!

What is missing here? Well, it's pretty simple really. 

Nowhere do they ask about the safety of locals living under the threat of these dangerous dams.

Where is there ANY mention of the RIZZO report, which classifies these dams as a Class C HIGH HAZARD  and UNABLE TO CARRY OUT COMPLETE INSPECTIONS because of the overgrown state of these dams.

Where does it give a link to FEMA, NYDEC,USACE and ASDSO organisations who all say NO TREES (& undergrowth) ON A DAM?

Do they really think the NYPA and our State officials are going to take any notice of this puerile questionnaire?

Desperate people who have got this ALL wrong!


« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 05:47:11 am by Michael Caswell »

Doug K

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Re: Desperate Times - desperate people!
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 02:31:31 pm »
The STCC group is touting 61 replies, at last check, so 593 of the other members in the Facebook group are not playing along. Seems like it's mostly newbies now, who are being duped like those other members were, over 4 years ago, when the group started.

And they haven't gotten anywhere, still unhappy that the answer is the same, No Trees on Earthen Dams

The total number of affected, adjacent homeowners, living below these earthen canal embankments was 328 on the original Embankment  Restoration Project. Two thirds west of Rochester, one third in Perinton/Pittsford/ Brighton.

And certainly that number is MUCH larger with the new EEIP program, that has expanded clearing from the original 50 odd acres to more that 1500 acres now with the NEW Canal Embankment work.

Does anyone believe that 60 Canal Trail walkers, whining about shade and photographic opportunity in a form letter, will stop a Canal Corporation Public Safety Embankment Program from clearing what's necessary to insure those 328+ canal neighbors living below unsafe earthen dams are made SAFE again?

They are in danger, from a NY State Property, called the Erie Canal... it has 100 miles of unsafe earthen dams.


It boggles the mind, it's like a group of Enviromental Morons who seem to believe that saving trees is somehow a better cause, than saving the people, canal neihbors, living below the danger that those trees are creating

Oh I forgot, this Facebook group simply DENIES the danger is real, so that makes them "right".

Again,  another group of people  on Facebook with a dubious message, and worse yet... the group leadership has questionable knowedge and credentials regarding embankment safety, dam regulations, and general public well-being.

Recipe for disaster?

You betcha

« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 04:07:29 pm by Doug K »

Doug K

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And now some members of this group are saying it's time to "fill in the Erie Canal"... just because some embankments were mowed & maintained properly.

You would think that the LEADERS of this Facebook group would do a little "pre-screening" of posted messages. Just to make sure "idiotic" statements from some members get stopped from appearing in public and maybe prevent the group from looking totally absurd or ridiculous... like these two recent posts

Nope, just take a look... the canal is "ruined", time to fill it in... and now the group is blaming anything they see on "clear-cutting", even a sink in the pathway.









Michael Caswell

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Proof of the mess by STCC post!
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2021, 07:24:15 am »
I'm sure Mr. David Burrows didn't realise what he'd posted here. His photos show EXACTLY how dilapidated the canal embankment dam at Gasport is.

Just look at the dense undergrowth. You couldn't take one step into it.
There's fallen trees, broken branches hanging down, and more.

Yet Mr Burrows seems oblivious to it all.  He says "Biking riding out at Wruck road heading toward GASPORT. They had a tractor with a brush hog on it . Reaching out 20 to 30 feet from the trail. Cutting anything in its path."



And then - Peter Heuer says -
"That's tragic: what's the point of the canal if it's not a nice place to walk and bike? They might just as well fill it in."
The mind boggles!


Doug K

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We have said it in the past...you just can't make this stuff up.

Here's a brilliant member of this Facebook group, a Mr. Bruce Mellen,  who says that "clear-cutting" happens between the Empire Trail and the water channel, on the inboard slope of the Earthen Embankment. No trees harvested, No Outboard earthen embankment involved, but somehow it's all "clear-cutting" now.



Funny, that is where the routine trail maintenance is done. There is supposed to be no vegetation there at all, weakens the structure of the rip-rap and earthen dam crest. This area is routinely cleared just about everywhere else along the Canal System, or should be.

So why doesn't Fearless Leader/Virginia Maier correct him?

After all it's not like she doesn't understand that the reason by all this is for SAFETY.. just read what she said BEFORE she became "leader" of this "movement"
 



https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/stop-the-canal-clear-cut-group-leaders-hiding-what-they-know-about-embankment-sa/msg1677/?topicseen#msg1677


Oh well, chalk it up to that old saying... "Open Mouth...Insert Foot"

Or was it something about "talking out of your arse?" I just can't remember which fits best here.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 06:22:17 pm by Doug K »

Michael Caswell

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Chaining themselves to trees?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2021, 06:27:31 am »
Yes, I can see it coming.