Author Topic: We're not interested in engaging in productive dialog, so they say!  (Read 28 times)

Michael Caswell

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But wait!  Our forum is open to everyone. The STCC forum is 'closed', and you have to answer 'questions' to verify if you are pro or anti STCC. I'll bet if you answer 'anti' then you will not be allowed to join. This is the sort of stupidity that encompasses the STCC. However, if any STCC members would like to express themselves here, please feel free to do so.

Here is the latest post -

Susan Manogue Donk Any tree planted will need to be staked now that they created this monster "wind tunnel."

Lynn Ellen Serviceberry (amelanchier) would be a great addition. If you aren't familiar with them, they are a beautiful native, shrub-like tree with three-season interest and delicious edible berries that will attract birds and bees.

Elizabeth R. Agte

We just walked to the cut site in Perinton. Today they cut the "danger" tree, and cut the tree that I called tree three, which was arching over the canal path. They did not cut tree two that tree one was hung up in, as they had originally intended. I would say this is a good day. We asked them not to use a hammer to kill a fly, and they listened. Being present, documenting, voicing concerns, involving the group as citizen scientists, this all matters. Oh yeah, staying focused on what is important, being respectful, and saying please and thank you works too.

Beth Tarduno Great day.

Janice Gouldthorpe is feeling hopeful.

Here's a second post:

To all members of this Facebook group:

We live in a particularly challenging time and incidents like this are truly sad. Individuals are utilizing the information on this closed Facebook group to launch personal attacks against the members of the group. It is awful to be the subject of these attacks as they are based on misreadings of the dialogue occurring on the page as well as misrepresentation and outright lies. Slander and libelous behavior will not be tolerated.

We welcome actual dialogue and information sharing on the page. [/b]However, if you are passing information from the page on to people who are not interested in engaging in productive dialogue, this is a highly unethical practice and we ask that you leave the group.


Kevin Gallagher: I stand with you Janice, Elizabeth, and the other genuine members of this group. It is often difficult to stand tall under adversity so I commend you for that.

Melanie Kneip Davison:Perhaps some of us should consider joining their group, to allow them to see the larger picture. We are all neighbors of the canal.


To Ms Davison's remark.  Some of us are more neighbors than others.

When the Admin of the STCC lives about 1/2 a mile away from the canal shores, and 100 feet higher, (as per NYPA marked map), it must be very disconcerting to those living under the threat of flood, to see, despite numerous warnings from FEMA, ASDSO & NYPA, that their lives are at risk thanks to this reckless denial of the risk of catastrophic flood by those clearly not in any such danger.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 01:49:40 pm by Doug K »

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Doug K

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Looks like two different conversations going on here, one is about a tree, the other is about STCC Facebook Principles...let's dive in folks.

First, about "the tree". I guess it's a victory of sorts to save a live tree, of course that one also has a short future with the new Canal Corp Earthen Embankment Integrity Program taking shape and right in the middle of the State Environmental Quality Review for the remaining work from Rochester east to Albany... Dams in your area may start clearing in December 2019.

What I am still curious about is why the STCC can't see what's wrong with this picture? Is this the "special" tree that was spared? Is this the reason?



Now that second posting from the STCC .. let talk about that here. This is what the STCC just posted regarding what I guess were a couple recent ECNA postings regarding their review of recent Canal Corporation videos they found on our website.

To all members of this Facebook group:

We live in a particularly challenging time and incidents like this are truly sad. Individuals are utilizing the information on this closed Facebook group to launch personal attacks against the members of the group. It is awful to be the subject of these attacks as they are based on misreadings of the dialogue occurring on the page as well as misrepresentation and outright lies. Slander and libelous behavior will not be tolerated.

We welcome actual dialogue and information sharing on the page. However, if you are passing information from the page on to people who are not interested in engaging in productive dialogue, this is a highly unethical practice and we ask that you leave the group.

Kevin Gallagher: I stand with you Janice, Elizabeth, and the other genuine members of this group. It is often difficult to stand tall under adversity so I commend you for that.

Melanie Kneip Davison: Perhaps some of us should consider joining their group, to allow them to see the larger picture. We are all neighbors of the canal.


ECNA Reply:
Slander & Libelous Behavior?... Really? This is a clear case where a group's own words and actions were reflected back to them and they soon realized it wasn't very flattering. Maybe the STCC & its leadership should show a bit more concern about their own negligence & misrepresentation on this NY Canal project. They stand guilty of negligence towards public safety & a total misrepresentation of the truth regarding known facts about Embankment Dam remediation.

Folks, the STCC Leadership is calling out their own support group's "unethical practices" in light of their own efforts to HIDE information that is contrary to their rhetoric & narrative. Information that would help their followers make better decisions regarding this Erie Canal rehabilitation work as well as the community they state they are trying to HELP but their actions show a much different picture. Sometimes what you try to hide from your supporters is much more important than the message you are trying to convince them to believe. Most times the reasons you hide that truth speaks volumes about your true character.

A few months back the ECNA pointed out that the STCC Leadership, Ms Agte & Maier included, tried to hide their own Hydrology Expert's words from their supporters. They claim to be encouraging "dialog & information sharing" but it appears they forget to add "as long as it supports keeping unsafe trees on unsafe dams" or the agenda of the STCC Leaders.

STCC Followers should ask their Leadership why they CHOSE to keep this information from them on their own STCC Facebook page

https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/check-the-ecna-forum-for-important-information-on-december-8/

The facts are simple, the STCC Leadership does not think words matter when they say them, they do not filter their thoughts before those thoughts leave their lips AND they certainly do not like the appearance of making those mistakes when the ECNA shows them what they just said or did in comparison to the truth. It's not our opinion..it's the truth.

The ECNA will always fight against those who misrepresent the facts of this Dam Rehabilitation work or try to minimize the fact that at it's core EERP & EEIP are about safety of our communities. The ECNA actually is a group dedicated to "engaging in productive dialogue"... and also truthful, honest, safety-centric which is what these Erie Canal Embankment Safety Projects demand.

It's not about Ms. Agte's view during her canal walk.

It's not about Ms Maier's complaints about loss of tourist dollars.

It really about SAFETY of all of our communities along the Erie Canal, something the STCC has still failed to acknowledge or offer a solution for.

When Erie Canal Inspection reports show the embankments are unsafe and the same embankments are not able to be inspected properly anymore,  it's time to wake up. That revelation, coupled with an overwhelming consensus of all Embankment Dam science, showing the Canal Corporation is doing everything in it's power to fix a safety issue,  makes it hard to ignore the facts that the Erie Canal has reached a critical need for Remediation & Restoration work.

That is of course unless you are acting irresponsibly like the STCC Leadership appears to be, along with those who fail to see the writing on the Dam

MOVING ON:
Never fear the ECNA will extends an "olive branch" and help the STCC with the traitors in their midst... note it's plural.. in the hundreds.

Here's a way to get your "unethical members" as you stated.. to leave and solve your current dilemma of playing "Find the Mole" in the dark. Its a simple 6 step approach to "clean house" but does come with some risks... you must start over now that the ECNA has arrived.

Step 1 - Remove ALL members of the STCC except Agte, Maier, Gouldthorpe & Miller... throw in Gallagher for good measure as he's a pretty logical guy, but hoping these first four are right. there are a few others that do post but stick with this short list for a reason.

Step 2 - Post the Perinton Embankment Safety video to your Google STCC site... and also "may" want to mention the ECNA as a source of data, as that seems to be were many of you folks are getting your latest information

Step 3 - Post the Wildwood Hydrology discussion w/ Dam Rosgen, on WHY Erie Canal Embankments are actually considered Earthen Dams...to BOTH the STCC Facebook & Google websites... hopefully with your admission that the STCC is sorry for not providing it sooner. Here's an easy way to do that -->

https://ecna.createaforum.com/the-stop-the-clearcut-argument/check-the-ecna-forum-for-important-information-on-december-8/

Step 4 - Agree as a 5 person Leadership Team to always provide VERIFIED facts whenever possible FIRST, over opinions, ideas, hunches, and intuition as Ms Agte claims over and over again.

Step 5 - Reopen your Facebook group to the Public and wait to see if your membership returns... of course you will no doubt be using some type of "loyalty test" to try and weed out those you are "asking politely" to leave.

Step 6 - Compare the numbers..it should tell you quite a bit about your overall messaging and whether it is now accepted a year after your inception. If folks don't come back in droves then maybe your message needs to improve, or it's other core values like honesty, integrity, and transparency.

Doesn't this approach make sense? Of course it means wiping the STCC slate clean, the group will have 5 members for awhile, maybe forever, and that may be the deciding factor. You see the STCC has always been more about appearance than truth. Doing this might not leave the STCC page looking like the leadership wants, It may look very sparse for a very long time.

ECNA - TRUTH about SAFETY to all MEMBERS
The ECNA has a membership, small one, but we also allow EVERYONE the same access to key Forum Boards. Guests can view all, and post if the like. It's a neighborhood where many things are discussed..openly. And we always put safety of the Erie Canal community at the forefront, because that is the right thing to do.

We could worry over membership numbers, but why... we had 4 posts get almost 500 views total in the past few days... all regarding a couple Embankment videos that the STCC complained about and called foul. We get MORE views of our STCC post rebuttals than any other ECNA Forum Board.. and mostly from STCC members we believe..LOL. It's not about numbers, it's about the message... something the STCC missed.

The real worry here should be about getting the truth out to the public about this Embankment Repair project in light of the fact that a group like the STCC even exists. A group who seems to be dedicated to perpetuating the lie that "the Erie Canal Embankments are all right, just believe us".

Nothing could be further from reality...nothing could be further from the Truth
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 09:10:37 am by Doug K »